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TOPIC: Honda Civic 1.6L 2001 Auto ( long due topic )

Honda Civic 1.6L 2001 Auto ( long due topic ) 17 Mar 2019 09:12 #1

  • Coco
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Hi All and Hi Ron specially

Here is a long due post. Thx to Ron for being so patient
with me. I want to give you a feedback on my early miles
or kilometers should I say with the groove here in GVA
Switzerland. Go to the end of this post if you want to skip
the full version

It began on bumpy road as life does all the time.
The customs hold Ron package in november 2018
for billing reason they said...
Ok sure lets move on.

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Then I installed the groove with a very good mechanic,
a relative, he is very good, he is doing competition he is
very skilled, but he is more a self-learning kind of guys
and he doesn't like reading (IMO).

I had translated Ron entire instruction in french for him
but to my surprised I realised that he skipped some key
points. The PCV valve was still connected to the airbox
of the Honda

I send that lovely image to Ron. Newbie are lovely
when they panic, arent they ?

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Side note for myself I'm to confident with my relatives and friends
wich in business is not cautious or serious.


So what happen... I went to talk to the best friend
of my mechanics, they are partners in crime since
decade They have been through races and tones
of experiences. He knows the guy. So he told me :

"You know, Jo (my mechanic) is kind of stubborn,
he wont acknowledge mistakes or shortcut like that,
he is good but he is so. I had a kind of similar story,
where we recreated from scratch an entire BMW engine
from an E30
(I dont recall if it was a 4 or 6 cylinder sorry)
.I was crazy because we had done everything
by the book step by step with the swiss engineers,
their metrics were goods, my calculation was too.
I had to find the same stuff. But in the garage we had
sth else. I was between Jo and the engineer becoming
crazier... And finally Jo found out that some air bubble
were trapped in the engine, screwing the entire measurements.
when they were released we found what we had to find...


So we capped the airbox, I still want to seal it with epoxy (your
advice are more than welcome) And we re-routed the PCV.
I didnt dare to plug the tube with JB for a simple experience
that happened to me a decade ago with my old suzuki DR 650
monocylinder 1998

The mechanic plugged it and during the summer. Starting
generously full throttle from the stop the oil pressure blew
up the seal of the the "exit gearbox" So im kind of anxious
with the idea of creating more oil pressure since then. This
engine is quite small and the oil is easily under more pressure
it was extreme condition and only happen once but still...

So here is the HONDA now

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So after such a long boring story is there any result to provide yes

Usually the HONDA is achieving 479-480km or 300 miles (best case
scenario) in mix conditions, mostly city with very bad driving conditions
not LA style but almost let say shitty like Paris. To give you an idea of the
density Geneva is big as a village for you guys in the US its 200k ppl leaving
in the actual city 500k max in Gva county but the funny part is, due to the
money attraction GVA has daily traffic of 1mio vehicles entering and exiting
the county. My point is, its difficult to be an heavy footer in those conditions,
so its difficult to benefit fully from the groove.

Results In Kilometers and Liters (metric system)

Normal
300miles for 20 galons 15mpg

Grooved
Best Run 556km 45.7L (19.18mpg)
Worse Run 526 km 46L (17.86mpg)


2 runs for now only but more to come.
I rebooted the ECU, disconnecting the battery
the whole nigh leaving the key turn on.

Sorry Ron I spammed you, with my newbie issue thx again for being patient.
Thx also for your present in Christmas. That meant sth to me


Be Well

C
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Last edit: by Coco.

Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 17 Mar 2019 13:46 #2

  • Ron Hatton
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Well, even a 20% increase is VERY respectable, "Coco"! (Is this Henri? If so, please sign all your posts so we know who you are!)

If you can deliver even 5%, companies are generating MILLIONS of dollars based on that, so you're doing REAL GOOD!

Once I see some reports from you here, and see you're doing well, I'm going to start offering personal pages on the GadgetmanGroove.com domain for you. Everyone that's doing well will get one. But that's down the road a ways yet.

Keep doing it, my friend. Nothing can withstand the continuous application of force.

I'm proud of you.

Ron
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Smile for a stranger today.
You will both be glad you did.
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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 18 Mar 2019 11:17 #3

  • GregK
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Agreed, Ron - even 5% is an improvement: reduced emissions, lower demand for petrochemical/hydrocarbon products, loosening the grip big oil has on the planet...all of those are good things.
20% in city traffic is a pretty big deal! and what's it like out on a freeway/highway/autobahn (?) run?
Your best run shows 8.2L/100km and your worst one shows 8.7L/100km.
My car displays L/100km, so when I start driving and it says below 7.5, I'm getting at least 30MPG(US), and mine is a 3.5L v6, so you're going to do better in time. I know Europe has pretty stringent environmental standards, so what I'm about to say next may be an overstatement, but I think you really need to take it for a good run to blow the carbon out of the pipes!
Also, I'm quite happy I'm not the only one using the metric system around here anymore!

Have you opened up your spark plug gap? that may help you get your fuel consumption down further, as will making sure your tires are correctly inflated to the ideal pressure.

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 18 Mar 2019 16:48 #4

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Hi GregK

Those run were mostly inner city with maximum 120-160km of highway.
The my surprise the best run was when I drove back home for 60km
on the Hwy at a speed of 140-160km/h its where I got the best mileage,

I dont know how much I will improve this because I'm thinking the small
the engine the more fuel efficient. the more gasoline you pour the more
you waste I expect big american muscle car with low fuel efficiency to
get biggest improvement. You guys also have cheaper fuel than here in
Europe. In Europe we tend to get most expensive gasoline. so fuel efficiency
is a big deal in my opinion.

I want to increase the spark plug gap to 1.3-1.4 mm when I do the service
of the car. Im also going to use ceramic oil, except if somebody tells me it
had negative impact on the groove. Switzerland is quite a pain in the ass
for car owners and mechanics every 2 years you have to go to the periodic
control and the car has to be stock or you have to get an homologation for
what you are doing on your car. But anyway I need to change the oil, to get
something less sticky.

Funny thing about the imperial system you guys still use in the US, have been
working in the only Job where its way better to use it rather than the metric
system. Its in the movie industry, in the camera unit, its focus puller or the
1sr Assistant Camera. I let you guess why, unless of course you know this
job ! Im cautious with my tire pressure, too dangerous.

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 18 Mar 2019 19:59 #5

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Hi coco, Henri, as you prefer, Sir. That's a very decent result on this Honda, with the mostly congested city driving. We have often noted that many Honda's need time/ Km accumulated after the mods, before the real serious gains show up. Yours here has already shown it's willingness to "co-operate" with the Groove and extra mods. Good. With the oil change, increased plug gap, and warmer weather coming, you should see continued improvements!:)

Re; tire pressure. Common sense rules here. Check the sidewall pressure rating on your tires. Try inflating to the indicated specification, when tires are cold. As long as the tires are in good condition, you can reduce rolling resistance this way. Be reasonable, but also bold. By the way, my understanding is that tires are produced to withstand pressures far higher than the sidewall ratings, as a safety margin. Use common sense. Tire pressure does make a difference, it's free and easy. Just don't over-do it.

As has been said here many times- if in doubt on anything, review Ron's training materials AGAIN. And, Ron's white board lectures are pure gold, GadgetmanGlobal or Groovy Service Bulletins, on youtube.

nobody else ANYWHERE explains these concepts as does Ron! First focus on the principles, then it all makes sense.

Doin' Great, Henri/Coco! Keep at it, and thanks for the pics, by the way!

Tracy G
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Gadgetman Reno, NV
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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 19 Mar 2019 07:10 #6

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Hi Tracy

Thanks for your answer. I've rebooted the ECU a week
ago now. Simply because the first time i did it the PCV
air stream wasn't plugged and even if I got those results.
I want to start from scratch and go by the book with the
corrects instructions from Ron, otherwise it's not serious.

I plan to use higher octane gasoline to see if it has a
favorable impact on the groove, which I think. I also plan
to fully plugged the airbox hole with epoxy.

Thx for the the tyres advices, as I like mechanics sport.
and being also a biker I'm very cautious with pressure.

Im curious to see the effect of the ceramic oil on the
cylinders as it creates a thin layer protecting them.
The oil also stay cleaner even under extreme usage,
(ice racing for exemple).


By the way my nick name his Coco.

Be well

C

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 19 Mar 2019 11:14 #7

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When you say "ceramic oil," do you mean the RVS Treatment? or are you referring to Synthetic oil?
I can speak to both:
the RVS treatment has indeed made a difference on my engine's smoothness and economy, which has only been enhanced when switching to synthetic oil for it's more consistent properties.

(Just so you know why I'm appreciative of your use of the metric system, I'm in Canada and I believe I was in the first tranche of students to be taught it when we made the change) Focus puller - I'm audio post, so yes, I know. I'm able to switch back and forth between the 2, metric and imperial. (when you do your fuel economy calculation, do you use the smaller 3.78L US gallon or the proper Imperial 4.5L? luckily, a litre is a litre around the world ;) )

Higher octane gasoline - Yes, it too can make a difference, or it has for me: After grooving I started using midgrade 89 octane because I had a chance to fill up with it at the same price as regular. My fuel economy went up enough for me to notice, as well as for the guy who pumped it for me - I wasn't coming around the station as often, and the distance I got out of my tank was increasing. Then I opened up my spark plug gap and put on zero resistance wires, and noticed again my fuel economy increasing again. so I tried a tank of premium 91 octane, and that has brought me the best result yet. (You use a different scale over there, but our pump ratings are 87, 89, 91 and above for premium. one local chain sells super premium 93 octane, another sells 94 octane ultra premium, but that manufacturer admits it achieves that number with ethanol enhancement) I suspect the lack of ethanot makes it easier to vapourize and combine with our groovy air vortex, and the bigger/better spark makes all of that burn at just the right time for optimal power/efficiency.

I too get the best fuel economy the faster I go, something I attribute to engines being designed to RUN rather than idle.

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 19 Mar 2019 14:58 #8

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When I say ceramic I mean boron nitride and it's a synthetic oil.
The oil is white, the
oil viscosity is 0w40

When you pull the focus on a comedian, their body move in feets
simply. Buts its ok to switch between the 2. Im putting some
SP98 Gasoline (RON 98). We only have RON 95 or 98 here
Did some folks get their hand on AVGAS and tried it on a
car without catalitic converter. Im just curious.

Its very odd to achieve greater mileage, driving faster but I like
it though

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 20 Mar 2019 10:05 #9

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I see Boron Nitride as an additive in oil, but not as the oil itself. It seems to enhance the "slippery-ness" of the lubricant by bonding to the surface of the materials.The BobIsTheOilGuy website has a good thread archived here
Can you send a link to the stuff you're talking about?

Fuel handling laws here make it difficult (illegal!) to remove 100LL/AvGas from airfields, which is why the dump cans from fuel tests are generally used in the lawnmowers and snowblowers at my flying club...but you didn't hear that from me!
Right, you use RON and we use MON or AKI or something...I knew once what the differences are, but...
and I don't know if you guys fool around with winter gas/summer gas like we do, but given the oil companies are global, they probably do... now is a good time for you to try the 98: the anti-vapourization stuff they put in in the summer hasn't been added yet, and if the weather there is anything like it is here, winter is ending and the air temp is increasing., so you'll likely see how the engine is SUPPOSED to run under ideal conditions.

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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 28 Mar 2019 05:23 #10

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Hi Greg

The website is in french only. this has been tested by my
relatives in racing it's best oil they have found so far,
cleaner after 1h run when other mechanics throw away
the regular oil. even great one. but nothing is close in term
of color results. It's 100% synthetic oil with ceramic additive.

I did the maintenance service today, funny thing is now they
put the new plug sparks in, the car is less reactive than prior
when I go full throttle. Check the gap of my old (very) plug
sparks. a little too wide.

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For the equivalent its RON95/MON85 or RON98/MON87
I never saw AKI in eu gas station but maybe in the airfields
gas pump, with JET01 or AVGAS fuel cant rely remember
it was in 04
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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 29 Mar 2019 10:11 #11

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It hurt my brain trying to remember my high school french reading that website; all I had to do was keep looking at the 129 Euro price for 5L to shock me back to reality. I think I'll re-apply RVS treatment to even out whatever wear might be present since the last one, and then try to find a boron additive to the synthetic oil I use.

You're saying the car is LESS responsive with fresh plugs (at the correct factory gap?)? here are a few possible reasons:
1- they didn't do a proper ECU re-learn
2- the gap is smaller than before.
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Honda Civic 1.6L Auto ( long due topic ) 02 Apr 2019 03:56 #12

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GregK if you can afford it you should give it a try the friend who introduce me
to this product wanted to be the exclusive distributer for my country, to its
surprise the guys was very shy about the idea just like he had be told to stay low.
Same sort of idea when Ron reveived a phone call from GM or Ford but the
cheap way...

With all my respect I doubt you can achieve the same results without
the same tools and knowledge they have. I would give it a try and
decide if it worth it..

We check the plug spark Sunday and now they all have 1.3mm of gap.
the gap is still smaller because the used had near 2.3mm. The ECU
memory is only 3 weeks young, still a lot to learn for it.

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