TOPIC: Mini update

Michael Lee grooved it. I honestly am not sure it can be done in a way to work on this one. But I am on the fence as to wether or not I keep the car right now

Well. it looks right...and pretty, too.
It could be that this car is the first tactory (right?) turbo'd engine with a groove on the TB.
I think that means we especially want to see a success here.
By my understanding of turbos, they use exhaust gas flow to push extra air into an engine above a certain RPM. The groove on the TB would work up to the point of the turbo kicking in - so, to get the fuel efficiency benefits of the groove, you need to keep your foot OUT of the turbo range more often than not. HOWEVER - what may not have been attempted is placing a groove at the outlet of the turbo/intercooler into the manifold.
how many inches of boost does the turbo create? pressurized air hitting a groove should make for a fairly significant vortex waveform in the manifold...
IF I'm right, you could get the benefits throughout the rev range of the car

Yeah not sure. I don’t think the turbo would make any significant affect on the groove when its not boosting. Definitely could under boost though. This turbo is turned up to 15psi.

ok, here's where I'd need clarification - does the turbo dump it's output upstream of the TB? I was suggesting a 2nd groove at the place the boost air enters the manifold
the groove should help you get up into boost territory faster the way it is now, but once you hit that point where it spins up and kicks in, it would be all air, fuel and spark.

Yes, the airflow in turboed gas engines is air filter to turbo to intercooler to throttle body to intake

but you need to be at a particular -fairly wide open, if not fully WOT - for the turbo to kick in and do it's thing, right?
A more closed throttle plate directs air from the intake towards the groove for greater effect, including higher manifold vacuum to better vapourize atomized gasoline.
also, with a butterfly at or near WOT and the turbo pumping air into the intake, there will be a slight mobilization of boundary layer air at the place where the groove lives, but the sheer volume entering the manifold will probably overwhelm the groove's efforts - it's at or above atmospheric pressure under those conditions/at that time.
A groove at the outlet of the turbo might work: the blades of the turbine acting as throttle plates pulsing air at a groove there...through the intercooler, past another groove at the TB...

You didn't buy the bits (to the best of my recollection), so you can't experiment with this, unfortunately...i suppose you could take the turbo off and send it to someone with the bits, but there would be the danger of some of the material that's removed in the creation of the groove falling into the turbo and ruining it, or the engine...but maybe a spacer/flange could be constructed that could be grooved off the engine. You should reach out to Ron directly, I think.

Gentlemen, I have been lurking in the shadows, watching this discussion play out.

1) I have never seen a throttle plate at "Wide-Open Throttle" (WOT) where the throttle plate could actually reach a position parallel to the air flow. Always, they have an angle to them that compresses the air.
2) So long as the plate is angled, it will force air into The Groove.
3) As the air speed increases, so does the compression. Therefore, The Groove will have a positive effect.

You are speaking about a turbo charged engine. What is known as "Turbo Lag" has been reported universally (save this instance) to have been eliminated. Combustion is still enhanced, which gives the conditions necessary for improvements in mileage.

The only factor that can reduce the effects (if properly done and properly installed) is the computer itself. If the ECU has been chipped, or has California Emissions, then it may be locked. If this is the case, you will get minimal improvements (CA Emissions-usually Ford Trucks/SUV's only) but the requirements in CA may be instituted in other nations, of which I have no knowledge and little experience.

One thing is for sure. Every government in the world is running off the money WE provide in the forms of taxes and fees. And ALL governments want to force us to consume more of our resources.

Of course, we want to reverse that!

So, keep up the good work and KEEP THE FAITH!

So I'm jumping in late to this party, Vernon. I don't know, I've never seen much less Groove one of these Mini's But- the over-rev condition sounds a LOT like what I experienced on a GM drive by wire TB when I was a fledgeling Gadgetman.

IT's all about the Natural Idle position of the throttle blade. On the GM TB's like say the '06 Chevy Avalanche 5.3 I learned from, you look for the dark carbon stain on the throttle bore. (hopefully it hasn't been spray cleaned away) The edge of that black stain tells the position of the throttle plate at hot engine idle. We use a business card or similar wedged into the opposite side of the plate to gap the throttle slightly further open from the stain. Point is to place the Groove downstream of idle, so the plate isn't "In the Groove" at idle. If it is then you get excessively high RPM, With what I've seen/read in this thread, that's my 2 cents. Ron has said repeatedly we only need to do this trick on the large GM DBW TB's. Maybe this is another example too.

Tracy G