TOPIC: The Ford Wars- battle updates

OK guys, I've started this thread as a place to land ongoing inputs from our intrepid Ford warriors and researchers Karl, heysoundude (Greg) and others who may wish to join in. These Ford topics have been in other LONG threads like MPGR, and will be hard to find in future. I'll see if I can move some posts, or maybe just add links to them here, but I'm still a Kompewter Klutz!

Tracy G

I'm chiming in Re: Karl's Mazda Misery here...I was typing along in responce to Karl's latest in JV's thread on fuel trims going erratic, then realized I'm tromping on his thread, so here instead.

I've been suggesting most anything I can to try helping. When I'm trying to diagnose an engine, I'll raise the hood, start it and just listen as it idles, using all senses touching the engine to see how smooth, rev it up/down, listening, I'll go back and sniff exhaust, looking everywhere, for anything wrong. Karl, have ya ever pulled any of the plugs to check color, for any variations in color/condition between cylinders? How clean/ smelly is exhaust, under cold start or hot?

IF it's all OK under idle and on road under all conditions, no obvious glitches, or hiccups, then I'm led to think the "state of tune" is OK. And I'd therefore expect the Groove and other tricks to give at least some results. I even wonder if the injectors could wear and have less than ideal spray pattern, given the Mazda's pretty high miles if inj. are original. Ever ask a mechanic familiar w/ these trucks if there are known issues on these or other parts, w/ high miles? Are they known for long service life, is yours typical, or exceptional? I wonder what would be seen w/ a vacuum gauge hooked to man. vac., at idle and on road? Also what do any Mazda truck owners say on other forums? Man, there just has to be a clue somewhere. Could there STILL be a vac. leak somewhere? Have you seen a power increase or improvement in how it runs from all you've done? I really can't remember ANY vehicle that the Groove or other things I do hasn't given some kind of positive response, but that's me. Better power is the easiest way to judge gains.

On the MPG Remedy front, after I think Heysoundude mentioned it, I bought a bottle of 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide. the health food/vitamin store had it in refrigerator, so it's in mine, awaiting my next dose of MPGR mix. Still running on a partial tank of chevron reg. w/Techron added as a cleanup move, just going on a hunch. I'd try the new (to me) tactic of HHO idle treat. if it was available to me. I'm considering tweeking the Weber DGEV float level too, but carefully...
At least we are getting price relief for gas now, who knows how long it will last, it seems almost ominous how low oil is going now...wonder what's really up?

Tracy G

OK Karl, let's shift discussion of your Mazda here. We get going in other thread's and create a disjointed story...

So does the Mazda's Idle RPM stay high even after driving w/ hot engine? It should be dropping
well under 1000 when hot, could be a vac. leak, could be the IAC staying open. Every engine w/ modern injection I've seen idle drops down at hot re-start. It's noticeable during ECU re-learn drive sequence, at each park-shut down-restart, RPM goes high then immediately drops down, it's an indication the engine is warmed up. Something maybe missed could be temp sensors- intake air temp, coolant temp, input sensors to computer, there will be spec's for those available, check OBD readings. Does OBD show closed-loop operation, check correlation between FT's, temp inputs, O2 voltages, load, TPS, exp. mechanic can watch OBD2 readings real-time and spot anomalies. Does engine reach op. temp like over 180 deg.? Can check if input temps to ECU match temps checked w/ infrared thermometer at rad. and thermostat housing. Need INfrared thermometer, scanguage/scantool, digital voltmeter to get readings.

Another thing to check is exhaust gas how does tailpipe smell, is there moisture in exhaust. Moisture is good sign of good combustion, if it's dry AND smelly it may mean rich mix too much fuel going in and/or bad cat. convert. Coolant in exhaust from previous head gasket leak can kill cat, look at downstream O2 voltage, I think if cat is good then downstream O2 should stay around .5V w/ hot engine/cat's. Check cat's w/ infrared thermometer cat's "light off" around 600 deg.F. A 5 gas smog machine can identify if HC or CO is too high, and the nose is useful too. When something is wrong there will be evidence somewhere. Codes, other symptoms too. Vac. leaks can also be in evap. system, gas cap, charcoal canister, hoses/tubes or the control solonoid valve. EVAP solonoid can go bad, or stick open. Can cause vac. leak not on engine. Worth checking.

What about fuel press. regulator? Vac. leak from vac. hose or leaky internal diaphragm. Check fuel press. compare to spec's. If tailpipe is stinky or black then I start asking/ looking at fuel system, vac. leaks, cat's even ignition, and see if it's running smoothly. If it runs smooth all the time, clean tailpipe smell, brown inside tip, no burps hesitation or other weirdness, then it makes me think there is a problem that ECU is compensating for. See if temp. inputs to ECU look OK. Does it warm up normally, or take a long time? Is t-stat AND rad. cap OK? IF you and friend can't find anything, could be worthwhile to let pro diagnostic shop look it over. Gotta be such a shop there somewhere there's one here in Reno. You drive lotta miles burn lotsa gas, lotsa $$! that dang Mazda is draggin' anchor somewhere!! Keep looking Inspector Karl!!!

Tracy G

Here's another clue, from the Ford Idle/IAC adjust procedure info...



notice they say how often a car owner will SWEAR there's no vac. leaks and yet they find 'em...and how they say ALL mechanical issues must be fixed first, THEN this procedure can be used w/ TPS. I've seen the Ford TPS's how it looks like they can be rotated, yet they seen to attach in a fixed way hmmm... the screw mounting TPS holes can be widened w/ drill IF needed.

I've just re-read the threads on forum front page re: Idle adjust pre-Groove, the Ford IAC/TPS adjust procedures...So I think Heysoundude has right idea to get his ride all ironed out BEFORE he Grooves it. Karl, do you have a TB that isn't Grooved? Now I'm seeing just how important it is to have a healthy vehicle before adding mods, or you get in a hall of mirrors trying to diagnose it. The Mazda had existing issues pre-Groove. There's this idle issue now. Mods aren't working. Karl, when did this idle issue surface? If it is OK except for this RPM thing, that's one thing. But it's real important to fix existing things before the TPS adjust procedure they say, that makes sense. Each time the RPM climbs at idle, and w/ high idle in general it's using more fuel. Wish we had a Star Trek transporter so I could look at it myself.. One other thing, as I said to Bo in Thailand, see if ther's a vac. syst. sticker map underhood or in a book to realise the whole vac. system. Thankfully Ford doesn't have as much vac. complexity as back in 80's Yikes!


Tracy G

And what about your Throttle Cable, Karl? Does a mashed gas pedal result in TRULY Wide open throttle? If not, it could be that the ECU is pumping more fuel based on the fuel map for what the TPS is telling it.
I noticed a HUGE difference when I corrected mine. It was literally a 5 minute fix and BAM! In fact, I'd check (and apply, if necessary) THIS before doing the IAC adjust. I held my throttle plate open with a vise grip while tightening the cable with zip ties.

I drive with a MUCH lighter foot now, and that means better economy to begin with. In conjunction with a successful groove and all the preliminaries, I'm hoping to approximately double my current average MPG.

and then there's this link:


I found the explanation of how the TPS relates to fuel map interesting, and it justifies what I've been working at (getting a baseline) and what I said in my last reply, above.