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TOPIC: 2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive

2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 26 May 2013 13:10 #1

  • Ron
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I did a modification on a 2010 SportTrac in October for an older gentleman who immediately was overwhelmed with the power increase, relating it to a "Jet Engine" and so is quite happy, but it has failed to show mileage.

Following a trip to Vegas from Hamilton, he reported no problems, but no mileage either. So, I offered an experiment of installing a restrictor plate, which also showed no increase in MPG's. Not only that, but he began to experience stalling when placing the engine in a high-demand scenario (passing, heavy acceleration, cold start).

Today, he came back. Insisting on not accepting a refund, we removed the restrictor plate and he is now going to drive for a few days to see if the stalling issue is resolved.

Anybody out there have any pointers on this uncommon yet beautiful truck?

Ron

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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 26 May 2013 18:43 #2

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Heck, Ron I dunno what a SportTrac is...

but what else was included besides the Groove? A PCV re-route? I assume there arent that many miles on it so likely no O2 issues. How's the customer drive it, leadfoot? Increased plug gaps? Baffles in intake manifold? Vac. leaks?


Ok I searched this is a Ford 4-door midsize truck. which engine has he got? Is it 4wd? I notice something in the above nomenclature about "charge motion control valves" in the V-8 engine intake manifold, whatever that means. EPA MPG #'s are pretty miserable, in the teens, Yuck! not an Economy Vehicle!

Without knowing any more, I'm gonna be cynical and guess that Ford has some type programming in that beastie that guarantees lousy MPG. Could the PCM be re-flashed?? I've heard of that being done but no experience w/ it.

And if it's the v-8 I'll bet ya didn't re-gap THOSE plugs :angry: Wait, you CANT re-gap those!! :angry: :sick: Wonder what Danny at ExtremeSpark has for these engines?
But on the other hand, if low miles then maybe they would co-operate w/ being pulled? Think I'd talk to a Ford tech 'fore I'd touch those rat Bast$#%'s. After your experience w/ those darn plugs last year I searched around and found a youtube vid of a Ford tech and his gig for changing them.




Ok so this isnt the orig. video I found last year, but gives general ideas. And when you go there there will be other similar vids in r.h. menu column. Think main thing on these is don't Leave Em In TOO LONG!

Basically though it looks to me like we have pretty small displacement engines here making pretty good power, at expense of economy. I'd rather have something like the Triton v-10 than one of those.

Sorry guess I'm not much help here :unsure:

If I think of anything else I'll chime in.

Tracy G
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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 27 May 2013 08:30 #3

  • Ron
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I found a good discussion on these "charge motion control plates" on a Mustang Forum.


This is one of the things I notice reduce the gains from the application of The Gadgetman Groove. These plates are used in a variety of vehicles, and in every one mileage results are extremely questionable.

Found them in an older corolla, too!

Thanks for this, Tracy!

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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 27 May 2013 09:51 #4

  • neil
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Hi Ron and Tracy, Loved the video Tracy! pretty sure nothing like those plugs in Australia!
I was thinking of a few things; so will ramble for a bit...
I drive a car on LPG (propane) and a few years ago I noticed it ran better with Hotter plugs (opposite of word on the street for LPG), I also tried the motorcraft plugs with an electrode shaped like a cone and they ran badly too (supposedly suited LPG!). It seems to me manufacturers are deadset keen to run very cold plugs, I learnt how to check if my plugs ever ran too hot, and they never have. Perhaps the groove has a similar effect to LPG? Plugs need to run around 600 degrees so if the groove lowers temperatures.... Rule for self is- NGK standard plugs, one grade hotter, Vee electrode and preferably non resistor. NGK BP4EY is what I use in my 4 litre straight 6 Ford wagon.
I am also interested in ECU operation. it seems to me there are only really three sensors that ccontrol most of our ECU/ fuel economy. I dont believe there is normally a lot of difference in economy when an ECU is in Open Loop or Closed Loop, however a faulty sensor in closed loop can cause mayhem!
The MAF (Mass Air Flow) and MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) are the initial/ primary way an ECU can determine how much fuel to put in. Both are very different sensors, and behave almost opposite to the other; With an intake manifold air leak a MAF will decrease fuel (leaner) and a MAP will increase fuel (richer) yet either or both can be used to communicate engine load to the ECU. In all; three possible combinations of LOAD data can be supplied to the ECU. I suspect that one is better than the other two.
Often times when looking for faults I have forced the ECU into Open Loop, this seems no problem to me as I feel many cars cannot actually achieve closed loop due to existing problems. Many drivers don't seem to notice these faults, Rich mixtures are offset by lighter pedal use and Vise-versa.
The computer must then operate with only probably three input sensors from engine to computer, all the rest of the "non-essential" sensors are disconnected and unable to upset the computer. the computer then operates on preset values.
Ron, it would be interesting to disconnect some of the sensors on this truck and verify that the issue remains. the computer is either unable to move far enough away from the preset values, or one of the sensors is helping the computer to maintain factory economy figures. I just leave the engine running and unplug sensors one at a time and check for any changes. leaving several sensors unplugged seems to cause no harm (short term).
Just my thoughts, Hope it helps.
Neil
PS cut my first groove several nights ago...yet to test...impatient...will report after 1200km journey this weekend!

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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 27 May 2013 18:37 #5

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Of course, Ron! Wonder how much work is involved to delete these plates/valves/ whatever this junk is? These things sound like having Gargoyles on an airplane wing to me.
Those Ford forum guys are also talking about a couple aftermarket intakes, but that's far outside our scope, unless someone wants to go that far. Seriously doubt many would.
For this 3 valve engine, between the plugs and this intake junk--Ford needs a new light bulb (remember that ad series?) My opinion.
I guess these various intake man. restrictions must break up the Groove waveform. I speculate that the vacuum issue is affected less. This problem is showing us how inportant the Waveform is for economy, I think?

Going out on a limb here-- maybe Man.Vacuum increase gives power, the Waveform gives MPG. Am I far off w/ that? Any correlation of this idea on other applications w/ these intake manifold gizmos? Just imagining here.

Cheers!
Tracy G
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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 27 May 2013 18:45 #6

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Hi Neil, welcome to our Happy Land!
Mate, did ya snap any pics of this one? A Ford inline 6? what year? Are they still using the venerable 300cu. in. inline six Down Under, or is it a Veteran of the road Wars?

I believe Ford and Chrysler had different versions of vehicles/engines for the Aussie mkt. than for USA. And they might have continued production of proven hardware there after discontinuing in USA.

Come to think of it I think I welcomed ya before? getting old/fuzzy burnt out from day gig... Anyhow, Cheers, Mate, and good luck on yer Road Trip!

Tracy G
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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 28 May 2013 10:30 #7

  • neil
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Wow! I can't believe how different it appears your Fords are over there. My Car is a 2002 Ford falcon. It is fairly modern design with Overhead cam, coil pack ignition and Variable velocity intake manifold; Ford made a green rocker cover engine which is a dedicated LPG engine with higher compression ratio 10.5:1, in 2003 these engines adopted double overhead camshafts, turbos's and VCT. The engine is from a long family of engines started in 1971 and basically has the same crank up the latest falcon, 40 odd years! Falcons are also optioned with several V8 motors. Falcon 6 cylinders are the most common choice for Taxi's and fleet vehicles over here. In 1971 this motor made 127 kilowatts and the current model makes 195 Kilowatts...at 6000RPM!I woked it back to calculate how many kilowatts at 4250RPM and it is only 138...so much for all this technological gains hey!
I think the intake manifolds that you are having concerns about must be these Variable Velocity things, I don't like these manifolds and have removed the one from my falcon and replaced it...quite a lot of work! I think my car is better on fuel economy but lost a little bit of performance. My one had a set of six butterflies in a row which which are closed for low RPM and open at high RPM.
...and unforuneately I need to sell this car soon!...
PS I have heard of the Canadian 300 motor in some F series utes, but they are pretty rare.

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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 28 May 2013 18:33 #8

  • Tracy Gallaway
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I just looked at the spec's in that link again. I need new glasses. In title of this post Ron says it's the 4.0 L which is the v-6. Spec's say the V-8 is the one with the valves/blades or whatever in intake--so that stuff isn't in the v-6, according to this link.

Hmmmmm...

Tracy G
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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 30 May 2013 05:08 #9

  • jim g
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Ron, Posted a similar issue with my 2011 Elantra. Almost 20k miles now, no mpg gains. This engine uses a dual path intake runner, and I suspect that the path the air takes at normal driving is affecting the groove effect. Similar to whats going on with this ford. Any Ford or Hyundai techs out there to shed some light? About 72k miles on this and will be trading in on a 2013. Will groove this one also, but will try to force the air flow thru the high rpm path, (less restrictions) and see what happens. Not only do we have computers to deal with, but crap in the intake plenum also!

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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 30 May 2013 20:54 #10

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Jim G, by chance did ya take any pics of the TB on your Elantra? Were there any odd protrusions, ridges, vanes, etc. or other in the air path either in TB or intake manifold?

Wayne Meador and I talked today re; the vanes/bumps in the plastic TB from the Ford he just did. Dan Merrick and I both think those things will adversely affect airflow behavior in that Ford engine, might be negating much of Groove effect.

So I'm wondering here if similar is in your Hyundai, and what other late-model engines...? :huh:

Tracy G
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2010 SportTrac 4.0 L Unresponsive 01 Jun 2013 05:26 #11

  • jim g
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Tracy G,

Didn't get pictures of TB, but there wasn't anything there that I can remember. I just picked up my 2013 elantra, and will get pictures.

Jim G

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