• Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine?

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 02 Oct 2014 19:30 #1

  • Juan Reyes
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 1
  • Thank you received: 5
It's been a while since I've posted anything.I'm glad the forums are still here.

I want to do this to my engine since I drive it so much. I am hoping someone out there has done it to their engine. Also was it expensive to do this to your engine?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Juan Reyes.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 02 Oct 2014 19:51 #2

  • Tracy Gallaway
  • Offline
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Posts: 1712
  • Karma: 138
  • Thank you received: 378
Hi Juan long time buddy!

The Somender Singh grooves or Somender's Groove is a groove cut in combustion chanbers on the cyl. head. There's videos on the Net about it, looks to me like a DIY project. Gotta pull cylinder head to do it. Ron did it to the Chevy 454 in his motor home back in 2012 look in the Gadgetmanglobal youtube channel. Far as I know the idea is to get high turbulence in ordinarily less-turbulent regions of combustion chanber, at outer edges. I've never done them, though thought of it. If you do, please tell us and get pics! :cheer:

Tracy G
Tracy Gallaway
Carburetor Coach
Mood Elevator
Gadgetman Reno, NV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 02 Oct 2014 20:13 #3

  • Juan Reyes
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 1
  • Thank you received: 5
Hi Tracy!!!!

Thanks for the quick reply. I did contact a local engine rebuild shop. They deal with cylinder heads and engine rebuilds all the time. They quoted me a price of $1,500 and that is a worst case scenario.

I actually will be contacting Somender himself soon. I am very excited for this technology as well.
The reason for my recent inquiry on this groove is because I have a new job. This new job has me taking my personal vehicle around my local state of Utah. I don't want to spend a lot of money on gas so I'm currently researching ways to improve fuel economy. Instead of the standard things they tell you to do. I want to think outside of the box.

I will love to get pics of this for everyone. I did look through the youtube channel but I could not find anything related to this groove. I'm in a hurry have a free concert to go to.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 27 Dec 2014 08:41 #4

  • Mykk
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 5
  • Thank you received: 0
I have singh grooved and dimpled the chambers of a set of performance small block chevy heads. This engine was set up for racing so MPG was not a concern.

It did make for a more torquey feeling engine on the street.

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



During tuning, (Demon double pumper 750cfm and magnetic trigger distributor with MSD CDI box) the engine wanted more timing then previously, especially at idle. Cold starting was much easier and I also noticed that the engine could idle down to 400rpm and 17:1 AFR without stalling, this was with a big roller cam with a large degree of overlap. I wouldn't set it up intentionally that way.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 27 Dec 2014 18:15 #5

  • Tracy Gallaway
  • Offline
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Posts: 1712
  • Karma: 138
  • Thank you received: 378
Thx for the pic, Music! BTW can you explain the dimple thing? Never saw/heard of that. I'm a drummer, they remind me of hammer marks on a cymbal. Nice lookin' SBC swirl port heads, looks like. The Somender's are the "other" Groove!! ;)

Tracy G
Tracy Gallaway
Carburetor Coach
Mood Elevator
Gadgetman Reno, NV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: more stuff

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 28 Dec 2014 10:37 #6

  • Juan Reyes
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 1
  • Thank you received: 5

Music4TheSoul wrote: I have singh grooved and dimpled the chambers of a set of performance small block chevy heads. This engine was set up for racing so MPG was not a concern.

It did make for a more torquey feeling engine on the street.

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



During tuning, (Demon double pumper 750cfm and magnetic trigger distributor with MSD CDI box) the engine wanted more timing then previously, especially at idle. Cold starting was much easier and I also noticed that the engine could idle down to 400rpm and 17:1 AFR without stalling, this was with a big roller cam with a large degree of overlap. I wouldn't set it up intentionally that way.


I would love to talk to you Music about what tools did you use to do the grooves? I would love to do this to both my vehicles. Also what did you use to measure how deep to groove it?

Sadly all the mechanics I have talked to in my area are NOT open minded. They only believe what the car industry has told me for years.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 29 Dec 2014 15:31 #7

  • Mykk
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 5
  • Thank you received: 0

TracyG wrote: ...can you explain the dimple thing? Never saw/heard of that.


Bass player here. The dimpling has several effects, some believe it to be the gold ball effect and speed up the airflow over the boundary layer on the surface of the chamber. Thus why it's on the intake side. Others believe they create turbulence in the chamber and make for a homogenous air/fuel mixture in the chamber, perhaps to a lesser degree then the singh "jets" that move the mixture around on compression stroke.



Juan Reyes wrote:
I would love to talk to you Music about what tools did you use to do the grooves? I would love to do this to both my vehicles. Also what did you use to measure how deep to groove it?


These were aluminum heads so I just simply used a hand file set, iron heads would need a bit more mechanical persuasion. I gauged depth by estimation, not to get to close into the water passages.

I would only recommend grooving a set of heads that you are then capable of tuning the AFR's and ignition timing. Grooving a set of heads for an EFI car with the stock programming/chip may not be beneficial. Like I noticed on my engine, it wanted more timing for a clean idle.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 29 Dec 2014 19:40 #8

  • Tracy Gallaway
  • Offline
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Posts: 1712
  • Karma: 138
  • Thank you received: 378
thanks 4 that Music! :)

your engine- I'm no expert- but able to idle so low w/ lean AFR's seems to imply efficiency increases. If this was over/above same heads on same engine, pre-Somender's/dimples. I've read aluminum heads retard detonation, so more timing (compared to iron heads) seems natural. Usually more initial timing makes starting harder, after certain point. Would be interesting to apply the Gadgetman Groove to the Demon to see differences! B) Ron Hatton applied Somender's Grooves to a Chevy big block motorhome's 454 heads, and the Holley carb was G-man Grooved by him also. But it broke down during a cross-country trip and went away before he gave us info on results.

Ok now I see the theory there (Golfball dimples.) And doing the Singh grooves w/ just a file makes sense too, just careful methodical hand motion carefully watching results. Makes sense too using an engine/controls capable of being actively tuned. My Subaru qualifies there, If I ever pull the heads for a valve/guides job that wasnt done at rebuild time 10 yrs ago ($$ was short). My 1985 Subaru EA82 engine has funky bathtub type chambers, I've not researched what mods they like. But they do have a big flat quench area surrounding the 'bathtub".
This engine has distributor, Plasma ignition, and Grooved Weber DGEV carb, computer now irrelevant. While not a power-house, it's WAAY better than before, and has seen an impressive MPG # in controlled tests.



Here's an example of my Subie's heads- do you have anything to say about this type chamber re; the Singh grooves? I've considered doing the Singh grooves on 'em, if/when they do get pulled. They are aluminum obviously, the Subie's are all-aluminum engines. They have siamesed intake and exhaust ports, this was Subaru's first OHC production engine, far as I know. As you've done some homework re: Somender's groove's, I'd like your opinion, if you wish.

Those dimples- they instantly reminded me of the big deep hand-hammer mark dimples seen on Paiste Sound Creation Dark Rides, from the 1970's the light reflection is quite similar! Completely diff. purpose of course!! :lol: Reviewing the pic above, I think the dimples could be used in the sloping wall just down and adjacent to the intake valve. I'd guess a Somender groove going up into that flat quench area above bathtub chamber, centered between the valves, and another shorter one going down into the shorter quench pad at spark plug...??

far as I can tell, the Somender's groove's can be done by hand in alum.w/ angled fine file. Ideally a junk head is obtained and drilled in area of Somender Groove placement to judge material depth, to avoid water jacket. Just question of placement, depth, etc. I ought to do my own homework of course- but anything you can offer is appreciated, Mr Music! :cheer:

Tracy G
Tracy Gallaway
Carburetor Coach
Mood Elevator
Gadgetman Reno, NV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: more info as usual

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 30 Dec 2014 06:53 #9

  • Mykk
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 5
  • Thank you received: 0
I'll be putting together a BMW V8 for my driver soon, a 4.4L (M62B44)short block with 4.0L (M60B40) heads & cams.

I will investigate how and where to groove those heads, but space is a bit limited seeing as so much ofthe combustion chamber is valves. There are a couple squish pads but not much as seen in the pic below of a B40 head with a B44 head gasket on it. I also don't want to lower compression too much as I am a horsepower guy too.

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



Another thing to take into consideration when adding textures to a combustion chamber, besides avoiding sharp angles to prevent hot spots. The long term effect from carbon layering could possibly smooth over and reduce any mods done. So, make sure that oil burning is under control. Not just from rings and guides but from the PCV/vent system. (I run an oil catch can on everything I drive) but also that quality fuels are being used.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Mykk.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 30 Dec 2014 07:43 #10

  • Mykk
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 5
  • Thank you received: 0

TracyG wrote:


Here's an example of my Subie's heads- do you have anything to say about this type chamber re; the Singh grooves? I've considered doing the Singh grooves on 'em, if/when they do get pulled.


Those chambers do appear to be rather, utilitarian. They do give you a rather large squish/quench pad to groove. I personally would groove those chambers.

Something along the lines like this, with less sharp edges and a more dramatic of a tapered long groove. I don't see any reason to get that close to the fire ring of the head gasket either. I think the important thing to keep in mind is to point the grooves towards the spark plugs.

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Mykk.

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 31 Dec 2014 15:59 #11

  • Tracy Gallaway
  • Offline
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Certified Gadgetman
  • Posts: 1712
  • Karma: 138
  • Thank you received: 378
hi Music, thanks for these pics! I agree on the second pic, I would have not gotten to the head gasket fire ring either, and round those grooves back to prevent hot spots//preignition. That Bimmer head, wow almost no quench area at all. Looking further at the BMW head, are the spark plugs indexed that way or is that just chance? Myself I use Torquemaster stainless surface-gap non-resistor plugs from Extreme Spark.com as necessary for Plasma Ignition setup. These type plugs have 360 deg. open gap, no side electrodes and the spark will rotate around, and actually form streamers in multiple directions simultaneously. I think this kind of plug could take good advantage of the central plug location in that head, just my opinion/guess... ;) I used these plugs to stand up to rigors of a mild Plasma setup, but they say they can be used and make these plugs for anything.

I became aware of oil catch cans& oil separators for PCV system, I use 2 kinds on Subie esp. in winter! I think these are a worthwhile mod, I've posted about 'em here.

Yes the Subaru EA82 head has a rather backward chamber design, but it dates from 30+ yrs ago. I agree on the carbon formation issue masking the Somender grooves/dimples. Mine has oil control issues now, it was a low-budget rebuild, took months to even get replacement pistons/rings to do it. It's not a popular rebuild candidate, and that was 10 yrs ago, mostly the turbo version gets all attention parts availability. No valve job, just checked for sealing, valve oil seals replaced. Main issue for mine would be ring seal, if I was to do a valve job...60+k miles on rebuild, over 200K on car/top end... :unsure: Mine the lowliest, ugly duckling un-loved forgotten version of Subaru OHC engines, though there are die-hard Subie nuts still around w/ the GL/Loyale wagons of the mid-late 80's. Mine has to be only one like it around...
I appreciate you inputs here, Music. After you posted, I went looking on Subaru sites and found more info. This has been a good car, if only I had a proper garage/shop to work in, I just have a small shed I do Groove jobs and other stuff (rocket Stoves/Ovens) in. Don't need much room to do Groove jobs, if I had a real garage, I'd feel more ambitious w/ my Subie!

Lastly, Happy New Year to you and yours! BTW- I can tell you would be a Great Gadgetman-- hint hint... :cheer: ;) :P

Tracy G
Tracy Gallaway
Carburetor Coach
Mood Elevator
Gadgetman Reno, NV

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: more info

Has anyone tried Somender Singh's grooves on their engine? 01 Jan 2015 22:11 #12

  • Mykk
  • Offline
  • Adventurer
  • Adventurer
  • Posts: 5
  • Thank you received: 0
That pic I found online is the OE two ground plug and I think that's just how it landed.

I too have a Plasma Booster on my BMW V8 (Ignition Solutions brand from a Mustang 4.6L). I use non-resistor NGK's with 3 ground straps. Fires up easy, idles smooth as silk and has good acceleration so I am happy with my $2/ea spark plugs. The gains with the booster were very subtle, but on mine it fires up first thing in the morning and finds a smooth idle with the booster where as before it would misfire for 10-20 seconds until the chambers got some heat.

Happy New Year!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Powered by Kunena Forum