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TOPIC: 2002 Honda Insight CVT

2002 Honda Insight CVT 20 May 2015 18:59 #1

  • Joseph33
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I grooved a 2002 Insight and as far as I can tell you no response. I plan to fill in the larger cavity to the left and leave the smaller cavity to the right alone and see what happens. Does anyone out there have any suggestions or experience with this Honda?

God Bless,

Joseph :)

P.S.pictures shall be coming soon.

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 21 May 2015 12:05 #2

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Good to see you again Joseph! :) I've not Grooved one of these, I recall Ron saying that Honda's can be stubborn about gains. Any increase in power, change in tailpipe smell?

Pics of this TB will help.

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 21 May 2015 20:40 #3

  • Joseph33
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Here are the pics that I promised.

God Bless,

Joseph

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Last edit: by Joseph33.

2002 Honda Insight CVT 21 May 2015 23:05 #4

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Ok Joseph- Overall your Groove looks good, though there is that rough part in the top center. The Groove floor looks pretty decent. Depth of cut and angle look good too. Did ya check the Groove w/ the bit for fit?

The real potential issue I see is that huge Idle Air Control (IAC) channel right in back of the Groove. It is introducing air that will swirl around that center wall and cause turbulence that will disturb the Groove's vortice's. Unknown is how long/often that IAC opens, if it's just open for fast idle, and A/C op. Or is it open more of the time...? Even when the IAC valve is closed, that channel is messing w/ the Groove here.

Before I give any suggestions about an IAC mod- can you put up any pics of the manifold opening this TB mounts to? I'm seeing ideas of backfilling w/ epoxy and maybe a new channel cut in to re-route most of the IAC airflow, as well as restrict it some. But it depends on what that manifold opening looks like. I'm sure this stuff you already know.

How many miles on the clock, any other relevant issues w/ this car?

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 22 May 2015 10:30 #5

  • Joseph33
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Here's what the throttle body looks like with the larger cavity filled in. I shall try to get it installed and tested tomorrow.

God Bless,

Joseph

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 22 May 2015 18:48 #6

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Nice lookin' epoxy wall Joseph! That's just what I'd do on that side. There's another possibility I see. Test it as is, and if there still isnt a boost in off idle torque-- then you could fill the other side too. Looking at the area between the right side of throttle shaft, going back towards the large cavity you dammed off--the material is pretty deep/thick.
There's that slot that opens to the bore over throttle shaft end. It's probably a vacuum passage. I see a way to do an IAC trench using that slot, the trench would go thru the material connecting that big area you just dammed up to that narrow slot. If that existing slot is a vacuum passage, then I would simply do a notch into the bore from the slot, at that last cross-notch across the slot. I would cut a new IAC air trench from behind the JB dam to connect to that slot's original bore entry, and fill in the area of the slot between the existing bore entry and it's new one. This new IAC trench would flow less air than the factory IAC setup, with it's huge "spillways". If this IAC trench doesn't provide enough air to support normal cold start fast idle, it could be carefully enlarged to add more flow. A 1/8" drill bit will do it as Ron showed us. This is all predicated upon if the base gasket is a flat fiber material type not a silicone O-ring, AND filling in the other smaller IAC opening.
By doing this, you will be creating a full-width artificial throttle bore wall for the Groove to interact with, removing the IAC airflow/turbulence from the Groove's area, and still preserve some IAC airflow potential, and preserve that vacuum passage too. All this should help your Groove a lot. IF the bit you Grooved with fits tight or isnt completely "deep" maybe slightly clean up the upper rounded Groove area...
Just my 2 cent's worth... BTW does this Honda have Constantly Variable Transmission, is that what CVT stands for?

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 23 May 2015 10:29 #7

  • GregK
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I'm keeping my eye on the results here, as my dad's Subaru Forester has a CVT too. I've had that up to 42-ish MPG HWY in cruise with AC...could 60+ be possible grooved, I wonder?

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 23 May 2015 11:43 #8

  • Joseph33
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I tested it without clearing the ECU again just to see what would happen and the results were negative at best; in other words I may have lost miles per gallon a little bit. So I'll try clearing the ECU and see if that makes a difference.

God Bless,

Joseph

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 23 May 2015 11:52 #9

  • Joseph33
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l'd groove it anyway and see what the results would be. Worst case scenario just feel in the groove with JB quick. every make and model is different with the groove; so I would not base it on Honda considering they are a make and model that typically has a hard time responding to the groove; nevertheless, since I have an infatuation with Hondas I want to give this make and model a go at it.

God Bless,

Joseph

P.S. what year is the Subaru Forester? :)

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 23 May 2015 18:09 #10

  • Tracy Gallaway
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I recall Ron telling us that some cars, esp. Honda's, will be stubborn about initial MPG results. Some cars will actually lose MPG's at first. There are other indicators of the Groove working. Most obvious is a change in off-idle torque. Also the before/after tailpipe smell. And many forget to do the full ECU reset procedure to clear ECU adaptive memory, else the ECU may take weeks and 100's of miles to respond in our direction. The reset is a drive sequence, along w/ the battery disconnect sequence.
My philosophy w/ the Groove is- it's a process. More of an attitude or philosophy than just one Ingenious mod. Cutting the Groove is just one part, though I've seen some cars give a big Whoopee! :woohoo: from just the Groove! To me if the other "side mods" are not done, gains are left on the table. We're not dealing w/a simple "bolt-on" part. The folks here like Heysoundude and many others, who realize this- are the ones reaping the best rewards, IMHO.

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 24 May 2015 12:45 #11

  • GregK
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Of course, different vehicles respond/react differently to the groove. My supposition is with more "power", a CVT equipped vehicle will find/achieve higher, more efficient gearing sooner.

Dad's Forester is a 2014, I believe...already a rocket, I worry he'll end up killing himself in the thing. Good thing it has very high IIHS ratings. I know of one couple who survived (walked away from) a highway-speed altercation with a semi truck.

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2002 Honda Insight CVT 23 Dec 2015 12:54 #12

  • Joseph33
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Sorry for the long delay, but here are my observations thus far:

I had to remove the JB Weld and let the air flow down to the right and to the left because it kept on triggering the check engine light which causes the IMA battery pack light to trip thus causing the battery pack to turn off which causes a very large noticeable drag on the engine. :sick:
So if I don't sell the car I will eventually groove it again without JB welding the down right or left and see if that trips the engine light and IMA battery pack light.

If someone else acquires a first generation Honda inside I would still encourage them to JB Weld and groove as I had done and see if they get similar negative results from the battery pack, because as a retired race car / mechanic told me: the same two cars do not always respond identically.

I also installed Dan Merrick's vortex and came to the conclusion that I was getting 12 to 15 mpg less then what the dashboard was telling me it was getting. :huh: So if I don't sell the car I will lean out the vortex to see if this helps miles per gallon.

Froehliche Weihnachten,

Joseph :)

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