I did the groove on my Kia, the other day. Had some intresting happening. I have done some mod's on it before the groove. I did increase the plug gap from .040 to .065 and with no problem. Un hooked the PVC hose and plogged the port to the manifold. Now I did the groove, reset the ECU and put it all back together. I felt no differance yet in performance, the car ran great before and runs great now.
After doing the groove I took it out on a test run about 10 miles, The car has a MPG display in it, and it showed no differance in the mileage, it got around 30mpg before and after that day. The next day after filling up the tank, I was on my way to work and I was getting around 40mpg. I was thanking this is great, after work going home the mileage came down back to 31mpg. Now after 2 days later it's gone up to 32mpg.
Question,?? What happen.
ECM is likely learning as you drive, try keeping a light foot. PCV- if vac. port is capped, tee the PCV hose to makeup breather hose, don't just leave it open. Tire press.? MPG Remedy, anything else?
76 K miles O2's and other sensors prob. still OK, was this DBW or cable drive? Pics? Might be good to see the Groove itself, though the initial MPG increase is good sign. I always sniff tailpipe before/after Groove to see if different. Could use scantool to check St/Lt fuel trims, Ron said sometimes MPg will drop awhile till improvement.
Gadgetman Reno, NV
How's the air filter? How's the fuel pressure? Maximum tire pressure?
From your profile Gene, you're right next door in Michigan, and if your weather dropped 40 degrees over the weekend like ours did here, that might have something to do with it.
Tracy's right; driving with your foot like a butterfly on the gas pedal makes a BIG difference...but give your car's computer a chance to process everything. (This is groove #4 or 5 for you now, isn't it? the wife's VW, your Ram truck, your muscle car...have I missed one?)
Will after a few weeks of running the Kia, about 4 tanks. The gas millage is mostly around 33mpg. Not the gains I thought I would get. Someday I'll figure out how to get thows pictures on here. There are times after filling up the tank, the millage go's up around 40. After stopping and starting back, the millage come back down.
I am a very light pedle driver, I havn't had much time to work on my car, so I haven't done anything differant to the car yet.
I do enjoy chatting to you guys. I really whated to give a better report on this car.
The air filter is new, the tire presure is at max pressure on the rating on the side wall, 44 psi. I still plan to get a O2 sensor. When I get the time to see witch sensor I have.
Havn't check the fuel pressure,
It is DBW throddle body,
There didn't seem to have a air port for the idle air control. I know pics will help.
It's been a while, Gene...reviewing this and your VW thread, I'm not certain you've completed the changes necessary to fully activate the Groove's effectiveness on both this car and your wife's. I'd start there, and redo the ECU programming, and THEN check your mileage again before getting into O2 etc.
I'm just next door in Ontario if you want to schedule a visit for some help.
Hi Gene. If the tires rated at 44psi, try a bit more, say 48 or 50. If tires and all else in Ok shape, see how it drives. Did you do the proper ECU re-learn procedure for the Kia?
I do it automatically on every one.
It's like making a nice dinner- the Groove is the main course. Tire pressure, O2's, PCV re-routing, IAC mods, MPG Remedy, any needed ignition work, RVS treatment of engine/drivetrain--
These are the rest of the meal! As long as there aren't ECU or sensor issues, or vacuum leaks, or any other things detracting from mechanical worthiness,
and your Groove is good--
then gains are all but certain to follow, in my experience so far. There ARE stubborn difficult ones out there of course. Some Grooved vehicles "taste great" right away, others need some more "sauce" to be tasty. And some need more time to adapt, sometimes several tanks of dinosaur juice.
I've found that during the re-learn drive sequence, I can usually feel the added low-speed/RPM torque just off idle. That and doing a pre-post Groove sniff test of tailpipe is another telltale indicator. I tell folks the Groove gives a combo. of added low speed power, a cleaner tailpipe and better economy. But we don't usually know up front the proportions of these benefits.
To finish this paraphrase of the Gadgetman Groove--so you Grooved the Kia and it's like you grilled a burger. You can just eat the plain burger, or add steak sauce and the "rest of the meal" and see how nice a dinner you can make!
and yes those pics of your Groove jobs would help us all to help you Gene! This is fascinating stuff to learn, and it never ends!
Gadgetman Reno, NV
Good- pics really do help.
Gene it may be that the bit didn't go full depth looking esp at the second pic. It looks a bit shallow, unless it's lighting/camera focus.
When I do a Groove, after it's cut, I will remove the bit from Dremel and test fit the bit in the Groove. Ideally, you should be able to get the ball settled into the Groove all the way to the taper. And also have minimal side to side clearance- set the ball into the Groove then see how much you can move the bit shaft end side to side.This is why Ron told us to avoid "penciling" left/right w/ the bit! Holding the flex shaft very steady and cutting till the taper touches the bore wall is the key. I find using a Panavice to hold TB's gives me much better control. A Perfect Groove would actually hold the bit in the Groove, though I almost never get 'em that good!
So I'd check the bit's fit in this Groove. Ron had to harp about this even to experienced Gadgetmen! The danger is to go too far with it, I often have to tell myself to stop from going too far w/ it.
Gadgetman Reno, NV