TOPIC: 2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6

2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 21:46 #37

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Looks good from here, Dr. Dude! So, did you cut right to left? Is that w/ the plate at rest or being held closed?

Tracy G
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Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: more stuff

2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 21:51 #38

  • GregK
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Problem #2:
It seems I built up the external part of the TB TOO MUCH to be able to get the heater bypass tube repositioned correctly, and that tube is held in place by the screws that secure the TB to the manifold...

Ha!!

And I thought I had it licked!!!

Thank you, Murphy. Lol.

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 21:54 #39

  • GregK
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That pic is with me holding it closed.

Natural rest photo:

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 22:53 #40

  • GregK
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TB installed.
ECU reconditioning happening now.
It started...like it has awoken!

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 23:09 #41

  • Tracy Gallaway
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As Rosanna Rosanna Dannaa on Saturday Nite Live used to say--"It's Always Somethin'!"

but it sounds like you overcame that install issue. Good luck w/ it, I hope the idle RPM's are OK...

We await the Results... :P

Tracy G
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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 02 Jun 2016 23:30 #42

  • GregK
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Ok, as soon as I pulled out of the driveway, put it in drive, got a code.
My dongle/app seems to be malfunctioning, so I'll pull the battery cables in the morning and try again.
I got maybe 600 yards before I turned around. I needed to almost floor it to get up to 20 mph.
Lucky it's late and quiet and there were no cops around.

We'll get this sorted over the weekend I'm sure.

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 00:29 #43

  • GregK
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It may be I've cut the groove too close:



which I'd be disappointed with, since it's a LOT less ugly than I expected.

Either that, or I've killed the motor/gears that move the throttle plate, meaning I need a new TB:



:unsure: :sick: :angry:

Before I go jumping to conclusions, I need the codes read. Maybe pulling the battery cables and re-doing the ECU re-program again in the morning will shed some light...there's a procedure for vehicles of this era that share the powertrain/computer in a document in the gadgetman land documents that differs from Ron's procedure/white paper.

I'll have to get my OBD2 dongle re-working to pull the codes and clear after diagnosing...I've migrated to a new phone, and I seem to recall there was a set-up procedure that needed following for my engine monitoring app to work...

like they said on TV years ago, Stay tuned!!!

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 04:08 #44

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Well, based on a quick read of those links a bad TB drive motor is possible. I've not experienced or recall hearing of any G-man having this happen from Grooving a DBW TB.

I do think it's possible you cut the Groove too close to the closed throttle position. IF it turns out your TB is toast, here's what I'd do. First install a replacement TB. With no dark stain to go by, I'd just install the new TB, and drive it till it is settled in- there may be a learning period for it and the ECU to mesh properly. Once it's OK, I'd scan the ECU at warmed up engine idle RPM's. To see the throttle angle or percentage at that hot idle rpm.

Then, w/ warmed up engine, key on engine off, (KOEO) see if you can position the plate to that position, by hand, and mark the position. You would need a helper to watch the dongle or other scan device, to call out when it's at the idle position. I had to do this once a few years back, on a DBW Chevy Avalanche. Before trying to move the plate by hand have the air duct off, and have someone turn the key from off to on without starting. You will likely see the motor move the plate when the key is first turned on. So watch for this first before sticking fingers in there. It was a bit tricky on that truck. It won't run of course w/ the air duct off.

BTW, did you try inserting a business card against the plate, to see how close it would be to where you actually cut? I had concern of the Groove's location seeing your pic, my concern was of abnormal high engine idle RPM. I've both Grooved and handled a few GM DBW TB's, never had an issue of drive failure or any sign of difficulty from manually moving the plate.

Only other immediate idea is re: the MAF, and check all electrical connectors. And-did you Check your work w/ a flashlight? You didn't mention if the bit broke into the epoxy, but if it did, and if you had to remove any epoxy to get that pipe to fit... a vacuum leak in the TB could also cause this.

I'll have my phone on again tomorrow, Greg!

Tracy G
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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 11:18 #45

  • GregK
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Tracy, expect a call around 1pm your time.

I did inspect for cutting through to the epoxy, or punching a pinhole, but I didn't.

What makes me think that the groove is too close:

The plate is literally at the end of its travel to close- it can't close any further,

AND

When I did pull out onto the street (pre codes) and touched the gas, it was like I floored it in a dragster when the GO light comes on. Massive torque. It was when I let off the gas that the code got thrown, and I was heading out to the main roads on neighbourhood streets at 25 MPH with no throttle input.

That massive torque bodes well if our supposition about groove location is correct. A 1-2mm move downstream could sort this right out magnificently. The trick will be to mark it, as you say.

Talk soon - flight lesson first.

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 12:43 #46

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Ok, it definitely sounds like the Groove is too close to closed plate position. When I did the Groove 4 yrs ago on an '07 Chevy Avalanche 5.4 ( I think it was), it was the 3 bolt big DBW GM TB. I had almost the same issue, hot idle RPM in Park was maybe a bit high, the ECU would just reduce throttle angle to compensate, didn't seem so bad. But put it in gear, and it would idle at 20 MPH or more. Had to use brakes to go any slower in any gear, and power was like a Saturn V rocket.

I filled that Groove w/ JB Weld, and re-cut it further "downstream". That got rid of the In-gear idle issue, and the truck still had great results. I still remember the re-learn drive, I punched it from 25 MPH, that thing reared up, bellowed, and put me back in the seat. Owners took it to Yellowstone National Park, and averaged around 18 MPG, up from previous 12 or so. In the end, I have that TB here, I'll upload pics to show it.

Obvious answer is to fill that Groove in and re-cut it. OR Groove a replacement TB. The take-away from this is: put the Groove at or a bit downstream from the dark stain. And see where a business card held between closed plate and bore on opposite side puts the plate for reference.

Pics: First is the TB plate at rest, second is the plate held closed. Note my awful Caveman Grooves, they still worked. This TB replaced due to the whistle phenomena, the wife didn't like that!

Tracy G
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Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: more stuff

2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 15:40 #47

  • GregK
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Yes!!! Looking at those pics, it seemed to me that when I tried the biz card wedge placement, I couldn't get the plate close enough to the upstream carbon edge. So obviously, where I cut this groove is ahead of where the plate rests at idle.
So, re-do, do-over, mulligan...whatever you want to call it, I've learned a LOT from this exercise.
Luckily I still have the carbon at the top of the TB bore to go by, since I focused on the bottom when I cleaned the shavings out.
Better, I got a full depth cut without breaking through as I feared I would.

For people following along, it was a HUGE help to have the flexshaft for the dremel, but the best tool by far was the Panavice to hold the TB, or I would've been thinking too much about angles and how to move to achieve them. Ron must have fantastic hand and upper body strength to be able to do it freehand...

And the videos...watch them!!! Once you're set in place and have everything you need at hand, putting the groove on takes ten minutes of concentration and less physical effort than you might think!

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2007 Buick Rendezvous 3.5litre V6 03 Jun 2016 16:47 #48

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Greg, if you haven't filled in the first Groove yet- I'd advise using a real hard setting epoxy if it looks like you might be cutting into that filled Groove. I'm paranoid on that. Or just position the plate w/ clay to miss cutting into the epoxy fill, using what epoxy you have. Anther option is to just let the plate sit at the at-rest position and Groove there.

You have to play with it to find best spot to re-Groove it. I just tried folding a plain business card in half, and put it between plate/bore opposite to Groove. This put the plate at the new Groove's location.

Gee, maybe that's why Ron first told us about this trick years ago...? :blush: :pinch:

I shoulda emphasized this up front!! :ohmy: :unsure: :pinch: (it's FUN to be Smart!)

sorry 'bout that....

Safer to just move the plate far enough away from first Groove to miss it. First Groove looks like a Med. bit one to me, giving that much more leeway. As for breaking thru into the outer epoxy, that's a far easier thing to fix, so you might use the Large bit for the second Groove.

All in the Learning curve here. One thing to remember is to spend time carefully looking over any TB and thinking of your plan. DBW TB's are different than cable drive ones to Groove.

Tracy G
Tracy Gallaway
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