TOPIC: Ignition and the Groove

I've been involved lately in implementing improvements in my daily driver's ignition system. It's my 1985 Subaru GL wagon, 1.8L OHC, feedback carb. Carb was Grooved by me last year.

I had experienced hard starting and general decrease in driveability. It acted like the Groove wasn't there. This degredation crept in slowly thru the winter. I had done my air-oil separator mods and all was well w/ that.

I cleaned the engine at a car wash, then discovered my coil's HV socket where the coil wire to dist. goes was corroded.

Step 1: replaced coil. That alone made big improvement.

Step 2: installed Torquemaster non-resistor spark plugs from Extreme Spark (you can search for them). These are unique- they have a very different design from ordinary plugs, you don't gap them. Subie engine LOVEs them! A bit of noise on AM radio between stations, I don't care.
Though the Subie does have a computer to run the air solonoids for the carb, it's a very basic setup--and the computer gives no sign of RFI interference. Newer cars might need resistor version of these great plugs.

Step 3: replaced ignition amplifier. Original Nippondenso amplifier module in dist. died. Orig. equip, 28 yrs old 200K+ miles, so can't complain. If an engine has a dist, and uses a reluctor ring and Magnetic pickup (old style Electronic Ignition, like 70's and 80's cars)--then there is a slick trick.
This won't work for Hall Effect or Optical Trigger type ignitions. You can use most any ignition amplifier module in most any vehicle. so don't need expensive hard to find OEM one. I used a GM HEI module like from 70's HEI distributors (Chevy).

I removed OEM module from dist. I tested the magnetic pickup, tested good. I've read that the magnetic pickups rarely go bad. THIS is the key. W/a good pickup all you need is another amp. module and some re-wiring. I could have used a Mopar style brain-box, I have several, but the little HEI module fits in a small space, and space was tight.

Caveat: you must use heat transfer silicone dilectric grease on bottom of HEI module and mount w/ screws on flat metal or a heat-sink to keep from burning out the module, no big deal.

My book says your car will likely run better than w/ the OEM module and it's true! I've done this trick on several vehicles before.

Now the Subaru starts better than ever, and runs super smooth. More power/torque than Ever! Exhaust sound is deeper, and water spits out the pipe...

Another bonus w/ this is that HEI 4-pin modules are common, can probably get one in any parts store or junkyard. I will carry a spare as backup.

OK now here's my Theory re: all this.

With these ignition upgrades I use less throttle. W/ less throttle opening at any load except WOT, incoming air is at higher velocity (I think) and manifold vacuum is higher. I would think that therefore the Groove has a stronger effect than before.

I will say that it's like my car has been Grooved all over again!

I submit that when doing the Groove, remember your Ignition too. Man, it sure worked for me!

Here's my Ignition book: I'ts out of print but on amazon and elsewhere. Awesome book!







First pic see the new module a Standard Motor Products LX-301
Then where it's installed on firewall behind and to right of spare tire area.

Tracy G

HEAR, HEAR!!

If your ignition system is suffering, then so will your efficiency. Machining The Groove is only the core component to achieving SUPER high mileage by worldly standards, and this experience validates that.

Other things have a negative effect as well, and it is our jobs to find out what is happening that is reducing the mileage.

One bite at a time... That's how we're going to eat this Elephant!

Keep digging and we will gradually hit our goal of 100+!

Ron

OK here's an update on my Subie's ignition.

I've finished (for now) w/ install of an MSD Streetfire 5520 CDI box, and a required MSD tach adapter.

Also since last post the Standard Motor Products LX-301 GM HEI module died. I had to think of why, and after a conversation w/ Ron I replaced that module w/ another HEI module, a used junkyard piece.

Remember the HEI module is the "brain box" that supplies the trigger signal to fire the coil, it uses the trigger signal from the magnetic pickup in the dist. to tell the coil when to fire. The Streetfire 5520 box is just an add-on that transforms the coil's output to a much higher voltage Multiple Spark Discharge. The MSD Tach Adapter was required to keep my car's computer happy.

The first HEI module probably died from overheating. I used the silicone grease under between it and the firewall. Firewall metal had slight curve giving less than ideal contact--the HEi module's need a good heat sink to live. They originally lived inside an HEI dist. mounted flat/level in dist. base, base provides the heat sink.

Mounted as I did the module got hot, grease ran down firewall, no heat sink poof it's dead, only lived a couple days. Solution: (thanks, Jake, my neighbor buddy! ) aluminum foil folded tightly sandwiched behind module against firewall. IT gets warm/hot, giving a better heat sink.

Meanwhile I've another idea for using an old Mopar 4-pin ignition Brainbox, mounted under the spare tire where there's room, so if this HEI module dies, that's prob. next. Remember: most ANY magnetic-lly triggered module/brain w/ most any magnetic pickup electronic ignition dist.. And the Mopar-style box has an integral heat sink so no issue there.

Photos: Foil under new HEI module, H.D. relay mounted integral w. HEI mount. screw. BTW, twisted pair red/white wires are from dist. magnetic pickup. Relay used to send B+ to HEI module, 5520 box and MSD tach adapter, triggered by original coil primary + wire from ignition key switch.

Ron reccommended using a second relay, to split relay contact loads between HEI module and the 2 MSD products, and to check small wire connections to alternator in case of voltage spikes from alternator. Still need to do those things.

5520 Streetfire box visible left side, MSD red tach adapter just visible behind driver side strut tower in it's bubble-wrap sound deadener nest (it buzzes! not that loud, I'm gettin' used to it... )

Bottom line-- when this is fully sorted out, this sets stage to attempt Murakami Plasma Jet Ignition, w/ additional components. Zero-resistance plug wires are needed--and to attenuate RFI/EMI noise there is a likely solution, on order for the Subie..
Subie runs GREAT!! like absolutely Never Before. This is a humble base model car from 1985 folks, a far cry from what's around today. But it's Leaner/and a bit Meaner now.

Crazy thing about all this is: none of this is anything new at all, EXCEPT the Groove and Aaron Murakami's info... thanks, Ron! thanks Aaron! (and thanks Dr. Jacobs!)

Tracy G

I have a plan to install the Aaron's plasma ignition system like yours.

Would you share with us detail hook up diagram ?

My Throttle body grooved by Ron already. But I didn't get any MPG gain except fast throttle response.

Thank you.

Luis,
In researching the fuel management systems from newer vehicles, I have found that your system is much like those detailed in the Yamaha Video at the Diagnostics site.

If you watch that video, I believe you will find some relevant information to take you to the next level.

The hint is the ECU does not 'sense' the fuel required, but calculates the fuel required based on sensor input. The Groove will allow the conditions to reduce fuel delivery dramatically, but you will need additional electronics. Plasma will not allow for better mileage either UNLESS you gain control of those sensor!

I hope this helps.

Ron

I must agree w/ Ron yet again...

Ignition improvements by themselves won't generally do much to help w/ MPG's, unless the ignition is woefully bad. The Ignition improvements act to "set the Stage" for other improvements. Good ignition is a necessary foundation for optimal engine operation, the Plasma Ignition as outlined by Aaron Murakami is about as far as it's possible to go today, far as I know. Plasma Ignition may be a great Enabling Tech combined w/ other experimental technologies.

My Subaru runs smoother and stronger w/ Plasma, but Plasma itself has not resulted in large gains in MPG. Despite all I have done to this car, it still doesn't want to top 40 MPG. I think it is best to begin w/ something that has a favorable power-to-weight ratio. Sart with a vehicle that can get out of its Own Way! don't expect to get cornbread from Wheat flour! If only this ride had fuel injection...sigh...

Having said all that, Ron has had some amazing successes, so Pay Attention to what he says!

BTW, Luis, what car/engine are you working with?

Tracy G

Thank you for kind cooperation.

My car : 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham V8 5.7 Liter GM LT1 engine.

I have a plan to install plasma ignition system to my vehicle.

I understand the theory after read the Aaron's book.

But I need realistic hook up diagram include the Tach adaptor for my vehicle.

If you upload your hook up diagram, it will be be a great help for everybody.

Thank you.

Ok Luis, well I don't have a single complete diagram of my setup. I don't know how to do computer graphics either. What I had to do was--study diagrams/info on MSD's site, then study more after I got the Streetfire box. Then when I installed the Streetfire, it would run 30 sec. then stall. I surmised that the tach signal white wire from Streetfire would not work in my car. I got an MSD tach adaptor and used the green/purple wires from the adapter to the Streetfire. The Tach Adapter is just an amplifier to boost tach signal stregnth, and that made my car computer happy.

I did this project as a "layered" build, in this approx. order: new coil, replaced factory ignition amplifier module (Nippondenso) with aftermarket one for 70's GM HEI, a 4- pin one. then the Torquemaster non resistor plugs, then the Streetfire box. Then MSD Tach Adaptor. Then the Granetelli MPG+ zero-resistance plug wires w/ ferrite noise supression rings. Then, finally, the diode blocks between coil+ and spark plug terminals to get the Plasma spark.

There isn't a complete diagram anywhere I could find to do this, Aaron Murakami only gives general info cause how does he know what you have? Even if you buy a "complete" system for Plasma from whoever, you will still need a good understanding about ignition stuff to troubleshoot problems. Your local mechanic likely won't even know what in heck you are talking about. A look under my Subaru's hood has already freaked out 2 different mechanics and shops, the diode blocks especially look like Back to The Future. Your diagrams you posted here are the most concise ones I've seen anywhere for Plasma Ignition, though there will be different details depending on the car.

An excellent reference book on Ignition is Dr. Christopher Jacob's book: The Doctor's Step-By-Step Guide To Optimizing Your Ignition. Out of print, look on Amazon.com I've had it for 25 years, and used it during this project.

Sorry Luis If I didn't give you exactly what you want. Here is how my Eureka moment of how to do this went: Once I understood the diode thing, I realized that I simply needed to add the Streetfire box to the ignition, and beef Everything up to required standards as per what Aaron has told us. Along the way, I replaced the stock ignition module w/ the HEI, and had to add the Tach Adapter. Then finally the HEI mounted on a small computer fan-cooled heat sink. The Streetfire box, the HEI/computer fan, and Tach Adapter are each powered through their own individual 12V relays, HD ones for fog/driving lights. LOTS of new wires, terminals, and the special white silicone HV wires and heat shrink to protect 'em for the diode blocks. I'm confident I've got the only Subaru like this on the planet.

I just wish I had known enough about 80's Subaru's to get a turbo one to begin with!

Tracy G

Tracy you can make your's turbo .

Hi Bill turbo'ing my Subie would be a BIG deal. Turbo pistons, torbo exhaust, turbo itself ECM, wiring harness, intake/ TB and other stuff I cant remember. Far better to just get a turbo car. Much regret here, Ron Grooved my buddy's turbo Subie wagon in Phoenix just before I went and met Ron. Got to drive that Subaru while I was down there, it ran Very Well, had plenty of power, and was getting hiway MPg in the mid-30's. KInda late to do mine over, have put lotsa $$ and time into This Subie, now the power is just Adequate, still have to wind it up for short freeway onramp merges, and still lack enuf oomph in some situations. At low in town speeds though it has good torque and can cruise at 1500 RPM in 3rd/4th gear.... Low RPM is where this car shines now, low throttle settings, where the Groove has max. influence combined w/ Plasma and all else I've done.

Peace.

Tracy G