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TOPIC: Modfication of the PCV System

Modification of the PCV System 19 Oct 2018 22:33 #25

  • Wes
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Ron, from what I gather, you're saying the crankcase only needs 1 exit (the breather hose)?

I currently have the breather-hose setup as normal, but instead of blocking/capping PCV, I have it routed to before throttle-body. However, I'm considering testing your setup and blocking/capping the PCV so, everything flows OUT breather hose (will need to move catch-can to breather, however)... It simply makes sense that this would be more efficient.

If I understand your setup correctly, the 'breather' hose ceases to be a 'breather' anymore because fresh-air will no longer enter crankcase. With PCV capped/blocked, there's nowhere else to go, but the breather-hose which becomes a full-time EXIT for all crankcase gases...

My only concern is whether the flow will be strong enough to move all the blowby out the breather hose without the help of fresh-air entering/pushing it out on opposite side.

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Modification of the PCV System 20 Oct 2018 11:39 #26

  • GregK
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Wes - correct, the breather is a full time exit now with our re-route/mod, and flow through it varies with throttle plate opening. As opposed to or rather than the PCV's constant vacuum.

Consider: at idle, when the throttle plate is "closed" and the engine isn't burning much fuel and/or making much power, it also isn't making as much blowby vapour as when the throttle plate is more open and the engine is turning faster, burning greater amounts of fuel/air and making more blowby. those blowby gasses need evacuation most when most of them are being produced. a constant drain on the vacuum power that the engine develops is a constant waste of energy...which is why we must be super vigilant in reducing and eliminating them, period.

as to flow strength, consider that blowby is slightly higher pressure in comparison to the air being sucked through the intake tube, so it will move, albeit less briskly than when it was exposed to 22" or more of manifold vacuum. If you want to afford it every opportunity to exit as fully and efficiently, have you considered giving it a larger doorway to pass through? you could always go with a larger diameter hose.
On my vehicle, the ports were big enough for 3/4" fittings and hose, but the factory was using reduced diameter...maybe 5/16" stuff. think they want that bad stuff to move? seems not. why? because it wears out your engine faster, so you'll have to buy a new one sooner. and if you're using a lot of gasoline to do that, their buddies making/selling it are happy too. They win, you lose. fix that, now that you know how.
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Modification of the PCV System 27 Oct 2018 23:12 #27

  • kman
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Gapped the plugs from the factory .44 to .5 and plugged the manifold vac line.
The PCV hose is loose until I can find a T that can accommodate both hose sizes of the PCV and intake hose.
Have not noticed any increase in MPG or power change but then again I dont gun it unless I really need it.
Put about 2000 miles on it since the reroute.
Is the 10% wider gap too small or something else I missed?
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Modification of the PCV System 28 Oct 2018 13:40 #28

  • GregK
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kman - I ran into this problem myself, and my solution was to standardize the hoses, as well as increase their ID. everything is now 3/4"ID, and it started out in the neighbourhood of 3/8" I did this because it was easier than to try to find "the right" t-connector...but better hardware/plumbing stores may have the solution for you.

taking a holistic outlook on improving fuel economy is often necessary with modern computer controlled cars. you've modified the fluid dynamics of your powerplant and have confused the computer. Chances are you ARE burning fuel more efficiently, but the sensors are telling the computer to pump more fuel to compensate for more oxygen in the exhaust. sensors give ECUs significant information about adjusting ignition timing and injector pulse width, starting with MAF and MAP and ending with o2. if it hasn't self corrected by now, you have to step in.and correct what they're telling your computer.

That said, don't get too far ahead of yourself... simply disconnecting the battery overnight (both terminals, and jumper them together), and then reconnecting in the morning and letting it warm COMPLETELY up before driving may get the computer to be open to you and the re-route,

CUE Ron or Tracy to ask about vacuum leaks...
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Modification of the PCV System 10 Nov 2018 15:22 #29

  • William Banks
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Hello ALl.
In the older days we had breather caps on both valve covers and they worked with each other one in and one out.
If you block the PCV then no way the other works as a breather, it will work as a blowoff for built up pressure.
Also you do need to remove intake hose from the inlet air tunnel as the air flow won't be correct.If any air does actually get out of air flow to motor and into
crankcase then the maf won't be seen correctly at ECU.
My 2 cents.
want more please deposit your 2 cents, LOL
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Modification of the PCV System 16 Nov 2018 11:07 #30

  • Ron Hatton
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Hi, William!

Sorry for the delay in approving your post. While there are others with the power to do that (like Tracy-hint-hint!) it seems they all rely on me to do it!

Regarding the change in the air flow into the engine, the breather hose had BETTER be attached! And, it should be DOWNSTREAM from the MAF or it'll ruin the thing. It is rare to have this hose upstream of a MAF, but it DOES happen, so keep an eye out!

Thanks for coming to Gadgetman Land, William! You are always welcomed here.

Ron
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and Snake Oil-https://SnakeOil.wtf/?wpam_id=1
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Last edit: by Ron Hatton.

Modification of the PCV System 16 Nov 2018 12:17 #31

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Hi Wes. You understand the system. The only issue I've seen so far from capping the PCV man. vacuum source, then tee-ing the PCv hose to the breather hose is this: Some engines, like my all aluminum Subaru, can have water vapor condensation in the crankcase. Especially in wet/cold weather. If this occurs, then I re-connect the PCv back to stock setup, except I use a hose-in-a-hose restrictor in the PCV-to- vacuum hose. A catch can, cyclone oil separator, or etc., in the PCV to man. vac. hose, will grab and hold most/all of the water/oil mix.

I just keep an eye on the oil fill cap underside. IF I start to see a lot of the milkshake goo showing up there, that's the sign.

Tracy G
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Modification of the PCV System 03 Jan 2020 22:04 #32

  • Wes
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Well said Tracy!
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Modification of the PCV System 03 Jan 2020 23:51 #33

  • Wes
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Yes, my car does get the moisture in oil with the pcv-mod.

So much so, that when I take it in for an oil-change the mechanic will swear I have a head-gasket leak, but I know it's not the case because as soon as I put it back to the stock-setup and run it a dozen miles, all of the moisture in the oil is gone.
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Modification of the PCV System 07 Jan 2020 13:52 #34

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Wes, I can say by my experience, that an air/oil separator can catch much/most of the water out of the crankcase vapor stream. But they work best when spliced or grafted into the stock PCV system. You need flow in that system, but nothing says that one can't experiment w/ it.

Look in the archives folders, I posted lots of info and pics re: air oil separators in the past.

Something I came up with was to partially restrict the flow in the stock PCV system, an attempt to reduce the man. vacuum losses, when using an AOS.

You have to decide if the condensation in the crankcase outweighs the benefit of capping the PCV manifold vacuum source, and if you should try to address both issues together.

Tracy G
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Modification of the PCV System 07 Jan 2020 14:16 #35

  • Ron Hatton
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Gentlemen,
The condensate of which you're speaking is indeed a by-product of capping/plugging the PCV system on the vacuum side. But this is simply due to the fact of more steam, resulting from better combustion in the blow-by.

If you haven't noticed, you would do well to check the quality of your oil. You will find that the moisture is NOT getting into the oil whatsoever. It is simply steam, rising to the top of the engine, and bonding with the oil coating the engine surfaces. It doesn't get into your oil at all.

So, while it is initially alarming, it is absolutely nothing to be concerned with, and is indicative of a MUCH more efficient burn. Otherwise, the oil would be getting more contaminated by the liquid fuel in the blow-by.

If you can't stand it, I encourage you to just let it ride. What CAN be drawn out is being drawn out by the breather hose. Unless you use some vacuum, it's going to continue.

Personally, it doesn't bother me, but that's because I know what it is, where it's coming from, and where it's going TO.

But that's just me...
Ron Hatton
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Modification of the PCV System 07 Jan 2020 14:44 #36

  • GregK
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To add another 2 proverbial cents to this discussion, Ron’s not the only person who suggests that leaving this water vapour/condensate in the intake airstream/crankcase:
When I had a BMW cyclone air-oil separator on my modified PCV system, I had opportunity to show that modification to George Wiseman of Eagle Research, the designer of the EFIE device I advocate. His research extends to water vapour injection in addition to HHO, for those unfamiliar, and he was quick to caution me from removing that water from the system. In addition to cooling the combustion inside our engines, it displaces oxygen in the intake, allowing for a leaner burn, and further, increases the surface area of any fuel that it comes into contact with, making it easier to ignite. Further, the steam cleans any carbon from the internals over time, and the steam after the ignition event adds to cylinder pressures, which contributes to horsepower and torque. More power from less fuel, in other words. Isn’t that what we’re here to achieve?

For those who have goop collecting under their oil fill cap, it’s simply because you haven’t run your car long enough to achieve a temperature that the water re-vapourizes and makes its way out via exhaust - the dryer vent result we’re all shooting for.

Maybe a good press of the accelerator before turning our cars off, while allowing them to settle back to idle first will help move some of the goop back into the crankcase. Ron also advocates the occasional spirited or aggressive drive - and I saw a video from Scotty Kilmer on YouTube earlier today about this too.

Just something to think about.
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Last edit: by GregK.
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