TOPIC: Other ways to help petrol turn to vapor

So glad Ron is back.
Hello from Australia,
I was wondering about 2 other ways to assist the groove.
The groove relies on vacuum to turn the fuel to vapor, but can we assist in other ways?
has anyone played with different fuels to find which has the lowest boiling point? I think high octane fuel has a higher boiling point than low octane fuel, high boiling points won't help when we want to evaporate fuel! Higher boiling point equals more vacuum needed before vaporization can occur. I also see Ethanol blended fuels have even lower boiling points than standard petrol, surely this works well with the groove, so I was wondering if there are any tests?
Also the old style vapor carbs used hot air (the alleged 100 mpg ones),today many cars have a hot air ducting for cold starts. Are there any trials with forcing the hot air ducting to stay in the cold start position? or even boxing in the exhaust manifold further to moderately increase this hot air supply? Air temperature being closer to vaporization temp equals less vacuum needed to get to vapor.

howdy wisechill! Or, G'Day, Mate!

I think you raise very valid points about vaporisation. Here in the States fuel varies with location and season, and different states have different reg's about gasoline blends. Here in Reno Nevada, I think all stations have 10% ethanol in the gas all the time. And you can pick your favorite Octane flavor too along with brands.

I'd suggest investigating the MPG Remedy threads in the Index, as it has increased efficiency for most who have tried different versions of it. It as far as I know, reduces surface tension in gas, this should increase vaporization. What is the gas like in your corner of Down Under?

Tracy G

G'day Tracy,
I will check that stuff out.
Over here we get quite a range. E10 is regular unleaded with 10% ethanol, there is also E85! at selected outlets and Holden (GM/GMH) are one manufacturer really pushing it along, see picture.I don't follow it but I think the V8 supercars have recently switched to E85 due to its very high Octane. Then we have regular unleaded 91 octane, as well as 95 octane and 98 octane unleaded.
They also make changes to the fuels in summer and winter but we have very little snow and the seasonal changes in fuel are monir and not spoken of much.
The 91 Octane boils at a lower temperature than the 95 and 98. But the E85 blend seems to have have a boiling point around 10 degrees CELSIUS lower than the unleaded (must be around 22 degrees Fahrenheit but I'm not really sure because Australia moved with the times and stopped using Fahrenheit years ago!!)
We also use a lot of LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas), and we call it gas, because gas is gas you know! We like to call things by their proper names....
So, the gas is good Down Under (I'm talking about gas now....LPG), It is my preferred fuel, it runs very smooth, cheaper to run, easy to tune by ear (on older systems anyway), doesn't ping or detonate (with octane at least 100), engines last longer (some suffer valve problems though) less moving parts and helps me avoid the extra cost of purchasing and maintaining diesel engines.
You guys might succeed in converting me back to petrol, but I am lucky that LPG powered cars are usually "Dual fuel" systems, so i can have both!
Nice to chat lol

yo, wisechill...take a look at the thread here on Ford 460 Irrigation engine. See what Ron Hatton and Ken Bittle are talking about?

Now, I'm not directly familiar on LPG or Propane setups. However they both involve a fuel that has inherently excellent vaporization, as well as other good qualities. as you just mentioned. If The Gadgetman Groove did so well for Ron and Ken on those two Propane setups, well, what about your setup?

IF you can post some good pics of the carb or throttle body, I'll give my opinion on if the Groove could work for you. IF it has a round throttle blade that can be gotten to, then the Groove could probably do it's Magic for you, too. Let's see what ya got, Mate!

And BTW, you guys Down Under have a real nice spread of Fuel Flavors to choose from, nice high Octane ( assuming it's the same Octane rating system we Yanks have). E 85, and LPG. All those things are scarce or regional here in the States.

Tracy G

The problem with Ethanol as I see it, wisechill, is that it doesn't burn as quickly (instantaneously) as "gasoline" or "petrol" without it. That might be why GM and Holden (and others) are encouraging it's use - they're in business to sell their equipment and that made by their suppliers after all.

we want that burn to be as explosive and instantaneous as possible, so that most/all of its energy is transferred to making pistons/cranks etc move rather than enjoying a wee bit of a sightseeing trip out the exhaust manifold past the oxygen sensors (the gear it can burn up that GM wants to sell). Heck, the Marketing people have even gotten on board with that, as they're quietly recommending fuels that meet their "Top Tier" specification (google it). makes sense: When the cars become less efficient, they go in for "service" where parts are often "(worn) out of specification" or "malfunctioning" and need replacement. sell, sell, sell. couple that with pumping more ethanol "enhanced" fuel - you need more quantity for mileage compared to non-ethanol fuel, which they sell for less...so you're not really saving money.

Yes, per volume unit, ethanol does contain more energy, but it can't all get used in the timeframe that an internal combustion engine in regular road cars can use it. Me, I've been using midgrade, 89 octane with 5% ethanol with the MPG Remedy that Tracy mentioned and I've seen the mileage in 2 vehicles go up ~10%, so less fuel per km. Less fuel used, less money spent, lower emissions over regular 87 octane E10...that's good for the planet and my wallet.

Yes, per volume unit, Ethanol also burns more completely, leaving fewer residual compounds than gasoline...but if I'm using more of it to go the same distance, am I really helping the environment or my wallet, no matter how inexpensive it is?

I say no; this seems to be a case of penny wise and pound foolish to me. and that's what my experience shows.

But if you've got an LPG system on your vehicle, that beats both Ethanol and gasoline on all counts. Stick with it and use gasoline with as little ethanol as possible when you absolutely have to!

I'd still like to see some pics of the LPG or propane, etc, setups. Wisechill, you still with us here?

Tracy G

further along the lines of fuel vapor, I've done a bit of research and found some interesting links. Some of them may be a bit more a propos the MPG Remedy threads, but basically, it comes down to what the fuel refiners do to the product they sell us to run our cars on to keep what's called "Reed Vapor Pressure" consistent between seasons, for "reliability" purposes.

The conspiracy theorist in me, the card carrying tin-foil hat brigade member I am says they keep it artificially high so carbs and injectors and engine vacuum aren't as effective as they could be, so cars use more fuel and wear themselves out sooner; further, my gut tells me the concoction that Dan Merrick shared with us negates to some extent what "they" do to gas.

I'll post 'em up soon...stay tuned. Other than Reed Vapor Pressure, there was an interesting statistic about volumetric air-fuel ratio that led me to believe even more that 14.7:1 is NOT optimal in an engine.

For some good detailed info re: A/F ratios, etc.. Go to , and dig around for what George Wiseman has to say. He has done a lot of research in that regard. I won't try to quote George from memory, but he has a lot to say on that.

Tracy G