TOPIC: Plasma Jet Ignition video from Aaron Murakami

Greg,
Who knew that it was possible increasing a 12v to 5kv with a coil addition without a negative response from the application like frying something by chance.
If it is an easy enough application(relative to what each would call easy)then I guess it would be worth the effort if it concludes with a positive result in torque/mpg.
Then again, it also would be relative to how our gas is vaporizing would it not?
Just so much vapor in all that spray and if the vapor is limited, then more spark can only ignite what is vaporized IMHO.
Yes it would be GREAT if all the applications to this monster would have fruit(as did the RVS, which I would not have tried until I saw Ron post his stellar and what some would seem impossible results). But I feel just a little comfort seeing I am not the only one with disappointments. Seeing Scot have little to no results with his mods makes me think I am not the only one banging his head against the wall.
Dans pipeline did nothing for him as for me and its not the concept, just the vehicle rejecting what its supposed to do in response to the application.

Tracy,

Starting small with the spark upgrade seeing past experiences. Not going full bore before I see that the concept will work. Plus algebra can be understood, but it doesnt give you an understanding of trigonometry as in Aarons ideas. Will start with changing the wires and see.
BTW...just off topic but relative. My original HCS cracking tubes I wrapped on the exhaust I removed two weeks ago and found out that we have a problem it seems. The copper was reduced to flakes and dust as in whats left of wood after a fire. Since when does copper break down like iron does with rust? This may be why both of us received zero benefits from the system even though I rigged it over a dozen ways looking for the results all the others received on the forum. How can all thee rigs with double bubblers and different diameters of copper still leave me with zero results(anything more than 15 seconds)???
There is something wrong here and I am guessing it could be the copper since I think you and I were the only ones who had the same problem with flaking of copper on the forum.
Wonder if we are also the only two in the states trying this system also.

I'll throw in a bit on my experiences with ignition upgrades and tuneups in general. Back when I was a self employed mechanic in my own driveway, I offered quality tuneups to people. I always told folks up front- I'm PICKY about the parts I use. Before/after results were the most dramatic for older carbureted cars, esp. where the ignition parts were worn, substandard, etc. no surprise there.

I always would ohm out the existing plug wires in front of the customer, and give my appraisal of what they had at present. The higher the Ohms readings were, the better my results were, of course. I already had multiple choices available for wires and tuneup parts, I knew who sold what around here then. One of the compliments I got was from a car-guy friend who quipped, " your tuneups LAST!" And they did, I
hardly ever got repeat business on any given car for tuneups, cause I used good or premium quality parts, unlike most mechanics and shops. The good stuff holds up better.

Newer Injected cars didn't always give as good of before/after results, but I could always tell folks that the tuneup would last. Injection is just more consistent, and the car makers were using better stuff on the newer cars. Though I could nearly always improve on what was there.

So, it depends on one's own aspirations, outlook, and budget as well. I firmly believe in what Dr Jacobs said in his book- start with the Ignition, fix or improve it first. Then go after other stuff. You have to light that fire well every time! Build the bridge strong, then you can drive trucks, cars, or even Tanks across it.

In principle, lower resistance plug wires and/or other better ignition parts are always a good general thing to do. What the results for YOUR truck will be, I can't say. But I took what Aaron said in that video, about how those blue wires he was replacing, with over 5000 Ohms resistance apiece-- how those wires alone were eating up 99% of the output of the coil, as gospel! I may check the input resistance of the chrome Jacobs Ignition coil the Subie has. Since Aaron explained that the Pertronix Flamethrower III coil has such low primary side resistance, it will make for extra fast rise time. And That will make a difference in this CDI based type system. Rise time, means how fast the magnetic field builds up in the Secondary windings of the coil. Faster rise time, equals a stronger field, in less time, and Time is of the essence with this, and all, Ignitions.

As for the copper tubing turning to junk-- well it IS copper, not the most durable metal around. Wound around/against the exhaust manifold, then insulated, equals a very rugged thermal environment. HCS is a cool idea if one can get it to work. Just that we haven't got it to work right! It's tweaky. So too, it would seem, is Dan's vapor tube. Seems to me, that the Groove is by far the better way to enhance fuel vaporization! Instead of trying to add vapor in, just make what's already there do a better job.

Like I said in another post- We are the only ones using the enhanced manifold vacuum approach to vaporization. Ron really did come up with something extrodinary here.

Tracy G

sorry Karl, I wandered off my points there. Consider this about Ignition quality. A stronger spark (or Plasma ball). adds more heat. It will initiate burning of the available fuel vapor faster. That burning vapor, in turn, starts to heat up fuel not yet in a vapor state. This continues on through the various mix of different Hydrocarbon species present. More fuel changes phase to vapor (evaporates) and in turn burns, continuing the sequence. I forget now exactly which one it is, but Ron in one or more of his early Whiteboard videos-- he illustrates a bunch of fuel molecules on the board as a cluster of dots. He's talking about how the Groove makes more of those molecules into vapor, ready to ignite. He's also talking of how the fuel chemistry changed over the years, how there are now more different long or large molecules than in days past. You watch that part on the Whiteboard, see how Ron draws a circle around more of the molecule-dots to illustrate what the Groove does? well, this also applies to Ignition improvements. The same thing, to a degree, happens re: the Ignition system.

Another thing regarding the Plasma vs. regular sparks is- The Plasma has an intense photonic (light) component to it. It's plainly visible. It's reputed also, that the Plasma, actually gets MORE intense in the compressed atmospheric conditions in the combustion chamber. Anyway, I've seen it stated, that the Photonic component, also contributes to causing fuel vapor ignition, and may even affect the fuel chemistry favorably (cracking HC clusters/ molecules possibly).

Time, is the real critical limiting factor. Vapor ignites readily, but the unvaporized fuel, as well as the bigger HC molecules, are both harder to ignite, and need more time to fully combust. As a weird analogy- imagine some kind of demented speed bowling. You take the steps up to the line and release the ball. But the pin rake is timed by an electric eye at the start of the lane, the ball trips the eye. It only gives, say 3 or 4 seconds from the electric eye being tripped, then the rake takes down any pins standing. So, you have to be able to hit the Strike Zone accurately in a big hurry! For the analogy, full combustion would be a Strike before the rake comes down. Any pins you didn't knock down are wasted fuel.

To the extent I may not have accurately addressead what you are saying, Karl, I hope I as least shed some light here!

Tracy G

Tracy,

Thanks for the lengthy explanation to better understand the process.
Wow....5000 ohms resistance?
Changed 6 of the 8 wires today since 2 are under the manifold and a real bummer to extract.
Have to remove the manifold in order to replace the last 2 wires.
Already broke 3 of the 6 clips from the old wires that encompass the plug while removing.
Didnt have my smaller set of extractor pliers to grab around the base in order to squeeze the clip while pulling. Also broke one Torquemaster when I went to remove to see how it looked in wear.
Fortunately I ordered a set of Motorcraft platinums and used one to replace the broken TM.
Will post a pic maybe tomorrow of what it looks like.
Will know tomorrow when I go for a run if I notice a difference since I just started it today to make sure all wires had proper contact/clipped on properly. Will do an ohm check on the old ones when I break out the voltmeter and figure out how to work the dial for an ohm check.
A knowledgeable mechanic I am not.
BTW....Still have to find the source of the leak since its not accessible on top where it checked with fluid.
Here is what the Enginelink gauge is telling me at idle right after the wire instillation.
Notice the wide range on the STFT. Both pics within a minute and the LTFT is way out there.
Went under to see of any holes in pipe before 02 but didnt see them.
Maybe at connection off of manifold.

TracyG wrote: Another thing regarding the Plasma vs. regular sparks is- The Plasma has an intense photonic (light) component to it. It's plainly visible. It's reputed also, that the Plasma, actually gets MORE intense in the compressed atmospheric conditions in the combustion chamber. Anyway, I've seen it stated, that the Photonic component, also contributes to causing fuel vapor ignition, and may even affect the fuel chemistry favorably (cracking HC clusters/ molecules possibly).

given the sharpness of the snap sound of a plasma discharge in the videos, I would not be surprised in the least if the sound played a part in cracking hydrocarbon chains down to more burnable shorter molecules. especially when the air/fuel charge is compressed and dense just at the end of compression/beginning of power strokes...I know I'm a bit more prone to coming undone at a sudden event when under pressure

The reading on the Thundervolt seems to be about 3.4ohms an inch which figures out to 40.8ohms a foot. The base reading between the probes was .5 so I have to subtract .5 from each reading.
Took 30+ inches and the reading was 103.5ohms. This was measured on the wire on a straight course and not including the last inch of the 90% elbow boot.
Same with a 33 inch wire was 111ohm which again is 3.4ohms/inch and again not including the last 90% turn of the boot.
Tried taking a reading on my old wires and didnt get a reading. The numbers never moved which I am guessing there is so much resistance that no current registered or the resistance was so great that the meter does not measure that high. Hopefully I did the reading and calculations correctly. You guys would know better.
The pic below is the 30 inch wire reading.

Ok Karl, those are very good Ohm readings for any one plug wire in your new set. Those numbers are better than a LOT of hi performance wires I've bought, or sets I've made.

Technique- first off, I use meter leads with alligator clips on the ends. This gives good solid contact to the terminals. For reading resistance on the old wires--look again at your meter.

In the pic, you have the selector dial set to the 200 Ohm scale, so the meter will only read up to 200 Ohms. I'd move it to the 20K setting. It will then read up to 20 thousand Ohms. My old rule of thumb on plug wires- for stock or inexpensive replacements was I reject or recommend replacement for anything over 2000 ohms. If a set Ohms out to under 1000 ohms for each of the set, then it's a Performance set. Pretty decent lookin DVOM you got there! Digital Volt Ohm Meter.

When I Ohm out a plug wire, I connect leads to the wire terminals, select a meter Ohm scale, then tug and twist some on the wire as it is connected. I will stretch the wire out to its full length, then tug gently and twist gently as I watch the readout closely to see if it jumps around much. If it does jump around, I re-check my alligator clips to rule them out. If the Ohm value moves around much as I twist and gently pull on the ends, it means the internal conductor is breaking down, or the terminal connections are suspect. If the Ohms value only moves a few Ohms, I don't worry 'bout that. But if it's moving tens of Ohms or more, it's a Red flag. Sometimes, I've checked the crimp of the terminal and tightened it, or even replaced a terminal.
I go easy on the tug/twist, I don't try to make a wire fail. But this gives an idea of potential for resistance spikes happening from heat and vibration. It's normal to see a half an Ohm when you connect the leads together to test. Your DVOM is fancier than mine, now I'm jealous! LOL!

Tracy G

Thanks for the info on the voltmeter settings. Kinda wondered why it wasnt reading the old wires and just as suspected, the ohms were too high for those wires to read...for that setting. So now I know to jump it up to the next setting and I did.
The old set was reading 1100 ohms for an 11 inch wire and 2200 for another one with 25 inches.
So its about 900-1000 ohms a foot which you considered performance if 1000 or les.
I guess I had pretty good wires then to start but still, if they make them 50 ohms or less a foot on the Thundervolt, MSD and Granatelli, why settle for junk? But then again, if it doesnt matter on performance or MPG then why pay more. Havent noticed a difference in performance since I floored it and still find a lack of power but other issues could negate any ignition enhancements I may try. Still have to find why I have such a high LTFT.
Next improvement will be to shorten the exhaust with a flow thru muffler and eliminate all the turns on my exhaust pipes that causes too much back pressure. I saw one 90 degree turn and four 45 degree turns with the pipe after the CAT, ridiculous.
Saw one video where a guy just loosened the joint from the CAT to the muffler and that leak gave him an extra 4 mpg supposedly.
The DVOM I bought at Harbor Freight for $35 I think. There were cheaper ones but since this had all the bells and whistles(and I have no clue what they are for as you can see), I thought for $10 more than the next, I would pick it up just in case I ever need a better DVOM one day when testing something.
Didn't come with alligator clips and couldn't clip on to the boot end since it was recessed in the boot.

Hi again, Karl. One to two K Ohms for the ones tested is pretty decent as regular plug wires go. I don't really think in terms of ohms/ft. I just actually measure the wires. The Ohms rating from mfg's is for marketing, but it's still a good way to compare brands and products. IF yours had been 5K ohms or higher, then the difference in power would have been more. 'Course there are still the last two wires to swap...

Next time at Harbor Freight, look for leads w/ screw-on alligator clips, or a good electronics store. Kinda hard to keep pointy lead ends touching both ends of the wire, while pulling/twisting 'em. I had to go out of my way to get leads like this for my DVOM, the clips really make a difference.

Yeah, your DVOM has functions you will probably never use, just like mine. But they are there if ya ever do.

I like your idea on exhaust. Were you saying earlier that there might be exhaust leaks? Thought I noticed a difference in LTFT between bank one and two.... I'd believe that any kind of leak, be it intake vacuum, or exhaust, can skew the LTFT. Gaskets get old, and leak. We here tend to worry about intake leaks, but a sneaky hard to see exh. leak could that be the issue? Exhaust leak would "lean out" the exhaust, and effect an O2 sensor reading. Have you compared O2 output voltages between the banks? I assume there is no obvious exh. leak you know of. Once it goes closed loop, I'd compare each bank's LTFT and O2 voltages, and attempt to judge of an O2 was switching hi/low volts output, at a different rate than another. Remember with upstream O2's "Lean is Low" in the zero-1 volt total voltage range, with .450 volts the crossover point. You watch in realtime and try to judge the range of the hi/low v output.. If it seems to be biased to a lower midpoint, esp. compared to the other bank. OR if one is slower to switch hi/low than the other. I recall you replaced some of the O2's before, right?

Lean is low, means that if the O2 V output is biased to lower millivolts, it's telling the ECU it's seeing lean combustion, so Mr ECU will just add fuel. Upstream O2's are supposed to switch hi/low voltage output, how fast is called cross-count in old GM parlance, I think. As in how many times per minute or second does the v output cross the .450V midpoint. If exhaust is escaping upstream of that O2, it should skew V output lower, exactly the wrong thing for better economy and lower LTFT numbers. A vacuum leak on one bank would do much the same thing. Using my imagination, I'd think the exhaust leak would be worst at speed or under a load, while a vac. leak will show up the most at idle. The engine simply makes more exhaust the higher RPM's go, but a vacuum leak is the highest proportion of intake air at idle.

So, perhaps if a scan device could be watched while driving, to see how things change under different conditions, idle, acceleration, cruise, it might reveal something. Ideally done, with one driver, and one scantool observer. OR a really fancy scan device that will record all that for viewing.

Might it be a case of your ECU is just fine, doing what it's supposed to, and the data stream can reveal what's up? That's a BIG reason to have OBDII in the first place.

Tracy G

Dont think my Enginelink app gives me voltage readings on the 02.
As far as exhaust leak being the problem, I am going by what you or Greg mentioned.
Makes sense seeing it is a LTFT reading high and maybe the back 02 is getting too much air so I put an extender on it but it made no difference it seems on the LTFT readings.
Seems to work for others but I have tried them on and off for two years with no results.
BTW....I have bank 1 and bank 2 readings on the Enginelink app but I thought I only had one bank.
Confuses me why it reads two banks when I have one exhaust system on a 4 banger.
Enlighten me if I am still in the dark on this.

Ok, I am screwed up here too, thought yours was a v-6??

so only 2 of the 4 wires have been swapped... Oops, wait yours is twin plugs on a 4 cylinder. So that's 4 of 8 wires. I was trying to remember from 20 yrs or so ago, I remember Ford v-6's having access issues, but not on 4 cyl's. I don't see how there is a bank one and two for a 4 cyl. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in... Unless it's split for fuel trims into two banks of two cyl. each..?

So, uhh, there's only one upstream and one downstream O2 right?

Maybe you would care to start a new thread dedicated to your truck, w/ lots of engine bay and other pertinent pics. Like for example shots of around the engine, to show ignorant 'ol me what you are dealing with. Yours is the longest running vehicle saga 'round here, Karl! LOL!!

Tracy G

yeah, it's time for a dedicated thread for Karl's truck for sure...we've veered off topic again.
(yes, the Engine Link app will report o2 sensor voltages if the computer sees them...email their support for instructions/assistance if you can't figure it out on your own - they're great! they programmed up a custom thing for me and all I had to do was ask if the app could do it (open loop red word open, closed loop green word closed in one of those wee boxes. it's sitting right next to my air and water temp readouts))
also, if you were sitting at idle when those screenshots were taken, you may want to look at your TPS - 16% open at idle is a bit high, so I'm guessing your idle is too. (have you checked on the Ranger forums for the throttle cable mod? it helps...)