Talk about other methods for increasing fuel efficiency.
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TOPIC: Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems

Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 23 Aug 2021 20:31 #1

  • Tracy Gallaway
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I've been thinking about fuel (gasoline), fuel quality, fuel system cleanliness, etc. lately.
I spoke to a recent Groove customer, who's also a Mechanic with a shop on this topic recently. I also, spoke to a prospective Groove customer, and he gave me some interesting info.

First off, the Mechanic with his own shop gave me some insights about gas quality. He said that, like I've believed for a long tome, that most drivers, will just buy the cheapest regular grade gas they can get. This means that their fuel systems get grunged up over time. Brand X regular gas, won't usually have the best detergent additives in it, and it will contain at least 10% alcohol in it. Alcohol, is hydroscopic, meaning it mixes with and can hold water.

Other sources I've talked to, have said that laws or reg's that refiners operate under, now allow them to basically use Regular gas to get rid of byproducts. It's this junk in the gas, that makes detergents and other additives important to keep the injectors, intake valves, fuel pumps, and combustion chambers clean.

Just go to any auto parts store or section in big stores, and you will find a variety of fuel system cleaners, more than I've ever seen before, too.
The Groove customer prospect I spoke to has a Dodge truck with the lower performance version of the Viper V-10 engine, He said he had his mechanic, do a BG fuel system treatment to his truck recently. I think he said, this took the MPG's from 14 to 16 MPG, over a week or two of driving.

Greg K, in Canada, says that Premium grade gas supposedly has NO alcohol in it, throughout North America. This info was co-oberated from another source. There are some stations, that sell alcohol-free regular gas, at close to the price of Premium, or a bit more. Owners of small engines, lawn mowers, and other such power equipment, say that regular gas is hell on their carburetors and engines.

We do have SnakeOil for fuel systems, of course. This is mainly to make the injectors and fuel pumps run better, repair wear and then help prevent wear in the metal moving parts in the fuel systems, i.e. injectors and fuel pumps. Since the active ingredient in SnakeOil for fuel systems has the lowest coefficient of friction known, it can help keep grunge from adhering to these metal parts, too. It's more of a long-term maintenance thing, than aggressive fuel system cleaner.

Now, I'm thinking that it's possible and likely that MANY vehicles on the road today, considering especially that many folks are getting 20 or more years out of lots of cars/trucks----that many many vehicles have dirty fuel systems. Add cheap regular gas with alcohol in it, plus vehicles with well past 100K and even 200K miles on them, and neglected fuel systems--and you get a LOT of folks getting worse mileage and performance. Just when fuel prices are the highest in YEARS!!

Anyone else have ideas about this?

Tracy G.
Gadgetman Groove Operations Manager
Tracy Gallaway
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Gadgetman Reno, NV
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 24 Aug 2021 21:05 #2

  • GregK
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Yes, Premium gasoline in most countries today is ethanol-Free (regardless of octane/RON-MON rating). I've emailed and gotten responses from most of Canada's major chain fuel retailers - they all state that premium fuel is ethanol free. Petro Canada's Ultra94 they inherited from Sunoco is another story: There is Ultra94 at certain stations, but if you email customer service and ask, there's 10% ethanol on TOP of the 91-92 octane for the extra couple of points. Then there's the "Top Tier" cabal... It's not what they say but what theyre not saying

I was filling up at Costco the other week - their "kirkland" branded gas (also a Top Tier Fuel) is sold as having something like "5 times the detergent quantities of other brands" - but I overheard an interesting convo between 2 people acquainted with each other who had pulled in to fill up at the same time. They discovered that if they use premium, they get noticeably better mileage...and it doesn't cost that much more per mile. It reaffirmed my own experience as well. (if i put it on my Costco credit card, 4% of my fuel purchases are applied to my membership fees/dues or can be refunded as cash too, so they've really made it a no-brainer: pay a little more, get better mileage, and get some of what you spend at the pumps back as a refund)

This is actually a decent video, even if they don't have the animation quite right: for a port injected engine

Here's what the good ol' Triple A has to say: AAA link

On the right side of the header of the page with the headline, there's a link to a picture. You should check that out...and think about making the switch.

OK - when Covid shut the world down roughly 18mo ago, I wasn't working as much, and I wasn't driving as much, so I didn't need to fuel up as much. money got tight for me so I switched to whatever was least expensive to go get groceries and whatnot. when things returned to normal-ish for me, I started using premium again, but I started getting EGR codes. I'm guessing the pipes are getting blown out of whatever built up over time, and especially in the last 6mo-1yr. Mileage is back up, I've Put Snake oil in my fuel system, engine oil, transmission and power steering...and man, my Wendy drives like she's brand new again. The engine and transmission are in harmony, it drives like it did when I first grooved it...but I can hear little chassis squeaks, which is normal for a 14yr old car with 275k km/170k Miles.

Fuel makes a difference, and Snake Oil is the real deal, folks.
Greg Kusiak
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 24 Aug 2021 21:34 #3

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Greg, thank you for your inputs on this. I looked at all the links you posted, but the AAA link is broken , it gives a 404code, page not found. so I couldn't look at what you speak of.
But in any case, the topic of gasoline quality, additives, fuel and intake system cleanliness, and, yes, using Snake Oil products, are HIGHLY relevant today!:cheer:

We eat food to power our bodies. Your vehicle and engine "eat" gas.
What happens if you go on a Junk food diet for months on end...??:pinch:

well, how do ya think that poor 'ol ride of yours feels right now??
Maybe it deserves a better "diet"??!!:huh:

Switching to higher grade top tier gas and using a fuel system cleaner on a regular schedule can pay dividends.

And, your ride will LOVE Snake Oil products, I Promise! there's nothing else quite like 'em!:woohoo:

thanks Greg!
Tracy G.
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 25 Aug 2021 08:44 #4

  • GregK
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Dang it - Sorry everybody.
Here's the AAA link. I hope this one works!
linky https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/aaa-not-gasoline-created-equal/

Now, if you happened to catch the sidebar followup article here , I think you have to decide for yourself if you want the added benefits of better performance from your car AS WELL AS longer engine component life (which some might say is the ultimate performance). The Groove helps you use less fuel in the long run, and if over the long run you have to repair/replace engine components less, I figure you're still well ahead of the game of vehicle ownership. Especially if you're adding Snake Oil where appropriate to truly reverse the effects of time on the vehicle.

We're talking long-term costs of owning and operating and maintaining a vehicle before you have to replace it. If you can get half a million miles (or more!) out of a car or truck without significant/major repairs, I'd say the costs are worth it - especially if you consider fuel as part of your maintenance routine.

As always, Your mileage may vary ;-D
Greg Kusiak
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Last edit: by GregK.

Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 26 Aug 2021 01:15 #5

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Thanks, Greg, the link in your above post does work. The article confirms my idea that people just buy the cheapest gas they can, without thinking of the results. Over time, this is false economy.

Based on our opinions here, plus the independant study by the certified lab that AAA sponsored--the quality of gas we buy matters a lot.

This, then is another issue to be more aware of, indeed!
Tracy G.
Tracy Gallaway
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Gadgetman Reno, NV
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 27 Aug 2021 20:32 #6

  • kman
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What to believe on ethanol in gas?







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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 29 Aug 2021 12:03 #7

  • GregK
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kman wrote: What to believe on ethanol in gas?








kman - if you would be so kind as to edit your post so that people can click/follow the links you've included, everyone will appreciate it. I'd make the edit myself but I don't have admin privileges here anymore. there is a chain icon in the toolbar of the window you type into that is used to include links that the forum software understands - on my machine, that's the 7th icon from the right

Well, this is what I believe about ethanol in gasoline:
1- it is no less damaging to the environment than gasoline
2- adding it to gasoline may reduce emissions, but at the cost of having to use more "ethanol enhanced gasoline" to go the same distance, so it's a false economy buying fuel with it included
3- I have contacted the major retailers in Canada that are present in my driving world, and they all state that their premium is ethanol-free. "global" agreements and automotive supply chains would indicate to me this is likely to be the case in most western countries if not globally, but as always, do your own research to verify that laws/practices in your jurisdiction are in line with this.
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 02 Sep 2021 01:26 #8

  • Tracy Gallaway
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My take on Ethanol in gas, is the refiners use it to add an Oxygenate to gasoline, and to help with Octane numbers.Oxygenated fuels help with pollution. Ethanol, has excellent Octane, but has less energy than gasoline, so there's the reason for worse mileage with Ethanol. Ethanol mixes with water, and can hold water in the fuel system. This can lead to corrosion.

So there are advantages for "them" with Ethanol in the gas, The advantage for "us" is lower cost per gallon, and possibly less tailpipe emissions..

I'm running Union 76 Mid-Grade in my Honda, and it likes it. It's running very smooth. Next tank will be Premium Union 76. I'm going to be avoiding the no name cheapo gas stations, and sticking to Top Tier gas.
Tracy G.
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 02 Sep 2021 08:39 #9

  • GregK
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Tracy Gallaway wrote: My take on Ethanol in gas, is the refiners use it to add an Oxygenate to gasoline, and to help with Octane numbers.Oxygenated fuels help with pollution. Ethanol, has excellent Octane, but has less energy than gasoline, so there's the reason for worse mileage with Ethanol. Ethanol mixes with water, and can hold water in the fuel system. This can lead to corrosion.

So there are advantages for "them" with Ethanol in the gas, The advantage for "us" is lower cost per gallon, and possibly less tailpipe emissions..

I'm running Union 76 Mid-Grade in my Honda, and it likes it. It's running very smooth. Next tank will be Premium Union 76. I'm going to be avoiding the no name cheapo gas stations, and sticking to Top Tier gas.
Tracy G.

Tracy, are you seeing an increase in mileage? that's the real tell-tale.
people balk at the price of gasoline with less ethanol, until they see the numbers. If the price difference between premium and regular/midgrade doesn't get you the same % increase in mileage, then I agree that it's not justified. but if you meet or exceed that %age...and further, do better than gubmint mileage ratings, it's simply a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Sorry (not sorry) corn farmers...but the environmental people will applaud for less GHG emissions per mile or whatever the metric is that they use.
Personally, I've found that to be the case for my grooved and Snake Oiled daily driver. Folks following along at home may find that their mileage varies ;)
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Thoughts on fuel and fuel systems 05 Sep 2021 20:48 #10

  • Tracy Gallaway
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I can not yet say if MPG has increased yet, as I drive 3 different cars now. However all 3 now have either mid grade or premium gas in their tanks now, AND some more home-made MPG Plus mix too. All 3 are running better, noticeably so. So, i CAN say that driveability HAS improved, esp. on Subie the '85 Subaru.

I'm hoping to do another Orange test run on the '01 Honda Accord-though I'm also hoping to replace the rear tires first. When I see measured results I'll post em here!

Tracy G.
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