TOPIC: Groove Philosophy

I'm thinking out loud of what has given my best Groove success stories...

To me a vehicle is seen as a combination of systems, the combination of those systems working together is what gives results. The driver's driving style is too often overlooked- it's the vehicle AND how it's driven. The vehicle is modified to help it's efficiency, after that it's how it's driven.

To me now, I think it's about improving torque and throttle response at off-idle, low RPM engine operation. Then if parasitic losses like rolling resistance, engine internal friction and even wind resistance are reduced, the vehicle can give gains in power, MPG's and less emissions. Meaning that you don't need as much throttle-and the extent you can keep your foot out of it, the better you do for MPG. To have power and NOT use it... It's obvious if you think about it.

The Gadgetman Groove does work, but like a good steak, it's part of a great meal...

Dan's MPG Remedy (sure hope you don't mind my naming it that Dan) has worked most everytime I've used it. I have several other cars testing it, and all report gains in MPG (all these cars have been Grooved as well) One car in particular has had a DRAMATIC improvement in power, throttle response and idle quality, almost at Miracle Cure levels. The Owner is having to learn to drive it all over again. I drove it briefly last night, the power is right there instantly off idle. It just flat wants to GO! To me the Groove and the MPG Remedy are a hand-and-glove combo.

With this combo, now, anything else that helps a vehicle go with Less throttle is a plus. Add tire pressure, engine friction reducers (see the endorsement Ron gives of RVS in the fuel savers button on site front page, it's good stuff) increased spark plug gaps and other Ignition improvements to support torque levels, PCV re-route, killing vacuum leaks, replacing old O2 sensors w/ new factory ones. All add to the Groove/MPGR combo... If anyone has any others to add to my list, please chime in...

See the Groove is like Frank Sinatra, or your favorite singer, on stage...a great Performer, but now let's add the piano player, the bass player, the drums, the rest of the band...and now we have a hit song, one you will always remember. And finally it's Driving style and technique, that brings about the really big MPG increases. You do the best you can according to circumstances where/when you are driving. Vehicle selection is probably the ultimate MPG tip. You can't play rock'n roll w/ a string quartet, buy as much vehicle as you need to get the job done, if mileage is a top priority. Don't ask for sushi at a BBQ joint...

Comments & input are welcome...

Tracy G

" Vehicle selection is probably the ultimate MPG tip"

Yes and some vehicles are best to stay away from.

Tracy, the other vehicles that had a good response to the MPG additive, are they carbed vehicles like yours or do they have a chip?
Have found out the painful way that chipped vehicles like mine are much less likely to respond to mods than carburetor types. As you already know, the men behind the curtain put these chips in our vehicles to keep us from modding our cars with the success that non chipped car owners do with great success.
There are many non chipped car owners out there getting over 100 mpgs on their carbed cars since they dont have a chip stopping them. Charles Pogue and Tom Ogle were just the two better known people who proved 100MPG+ is definately doable with many other lesser know people now getting well over 50MPG+ as you are.
Have tried the MPG remedy along with some others here with no real results and I truly believe its the chip stopping us from going beyond the parameters the chip is programmed for. Seriously calling around to see if anyone local reprograms/reflashes chips so these mods can do the magic that so many enjoy. Have had a few moments where the chip "slipped" and the mods kicked in and the truck felt like it was going downhill picking up speed and the Scangauge mpg reading going from 25 up to 55-60mpg. Then the chip woke up again and shot more fuel into the engine and the mpg dropped back down to 25 and the truck felt like it was hitting a headwind.....thank you MR.Chip
With those brief times of when the chip "slipped", I got to feel what my truck should run like when the chip is not involved to screw up the mods.
Even now I see on a straight run where the SG goes from 25mpg for a while then up to 35-40mpg for a while then back down to 25mpg and all on the same straight road.
With all the research I have done, have found that there are some who have had a chip "reprogram" with very good results. Also found that Fords seem to have the hardest chips to get around if what I read is true.
If it wasnt for my filling tires 10 pounds over and my coasting/driving habits, I would probably be getting the poor 18-23mpg other Ford Ranger owners get. The RVS is probably why the mechanic was so surprised at my 165-175lbs pressure on each cylinder for an engine with 270k miles.
So tire pressure and RVS work where a chip could not impede results for me.
Seriously looking for an old Chevy Nova with a 250 engine where I can mod with success.
Very simple engine and without a NWO reprobate chip to control or stymie my efforts for 100MPG.
Karl

yeah, Karl an old carb'ed car in decent condition would likely give you some easy success...Though I would add that many carb's are both not that groove-a-ble and also hard to tune. For that Nova 250- 6 cyl I'd look for one with separate intake manifold, some of those had "integral" intake man. cast together w/ head, avoid those. Then I'd look into a Weber conversion to the Rochester, the Weber's are both Groove-a-ble and are very tuneable, jet kits readily available. Redline Weber has kits for lots of American straight 6 cyl. engines. Working on something like that would be therapy... But I must add opinion here, I think getting said Nova to even 25-30 MPG would require fair amount of effort, but easy to work on!

I agree about the ECU issues, though I bet someone somewhere has solutions to it. Seen any info regarding re-chipped/re-programmed ECU for the Rangers? Other than that there is Mike Hollar's info along w/ what Dan recently said...

The only carb'ed vehicles I've done MPGR to are the Subie and a friend's '75 Lincoln Continental that is also Grooved, results were inconclusive on it. It's big enough to warrant it's own zip code... the really impressive gains all came on ECU/Injected vehicles, besides the Subie of course. The "miracle cure car" is an '89 Nissan Maxima it got a virtual personality transplant...

What you say re: RVS and tire press. increase fall into what I'm calling "Organic" mods, those that basically have to work. Another thing I've not yet proven, but recent experience points vaguely at- I got the huge MPG number on 7-11 gas. This tank is Chevron mid-grade, not doing as well as the cheapo stuff did in Subie. The gas brand additives to blame? who Knows?

I just got off the phone w/ a guy I recently talked to- he's going to try the MPGR in a controlled trial a full tank on the same 50 mile or so run I use, then another such run with MPGR. He has a little Suzuki Sidekick I think it is, w/ no mods at all no Groove or anything. Just to test MPGR alone. I'll post whatever results he gets.


Karl, wanna buy a '74 Dodge Dart Sport w/a lightly modded 225 Slant Six auto trans...? I'd take 6 grand for it, tons of work into this car, new interior, newer paint job, suspension, brakes, re-upholstered Recaro's, no stereo, true dual exhaust w/o headers...Super Six factory 2 bbl carb/intake...Vitaloni dual sport mirrors...no Groove this Carter BBD not suitable for it runs great...
sorry man that was cruel just slap me!

I wonder if the Mapster and some of Mike Hollar's sensor tricks would work on that Mazda/Ranger? Seems to me it's either that or something done direct w/ ECU...

anyone else got ideas to help long-suffering Karl?? he's worked his tail off w/this truck...
Karl didja ever go clean off ALL the ground's in the wire harness, could that be a culprit, you are on Atlantic coast after all...bad grounds could hamper the various sensor inputs...?? what if it's THAT simple... a common denominator under the nose so to speak?

Tracy G

Hey Matt! Your invoice is in your email We're happy to see you in the forums, and welcome all input and pictures. Get to know these guys, they are the ones to listen to. No one knows better than we what it takes to make a real go of it, and we, along with all the other real Gadgetmen out there will work to help you solve whatever issues you may face. Welcome!
Collette

Hi Matt welcome to GadgetmanLand!

BTW, Matt check your email...

so Matt, do tell how you found us, what engines and vehicles you are considering for the Groove, and what would you like to accomplish? We're here to help you out!

Tracy G

Hi !!! Well my name is Matt Granillo and I can't wait to start! I found out about the groove wen I was just watching videos on youtube on how to modify a tb and Rons videos were the first ones and I started watching all of his videos decided to give it a shot and here I am...I have a silverado 5.3 and a BMW 325I that I wanna try .. and most vehicles I'm going to apply the groove to are silverados and gm cars mostly it's like a chevy town over here, any tips ? I'm super excited to be apart of this thank you so much

I agree about the ECU issues, though I bet someone somewhere has solutions to it. Seen any info regarding re-chipped/re-programmed ECU for the Rangers? Other than that there is Mike Hollar's info along w/ what Dan recently said...


Tracy,
Been checking around and so far I found reflashing the ECU for only the foreign cars.
Will keep checking.
The SG keeps yo-yoing between 25 and 40 mpg going down the same straight road.
Then when starting the idle is so low it sometimes stalls but when it gets heated up, it idles around 1400rpms. Between the two things above, its telling me the computer is not right. That is why I suspect the ECU has to be dealt with.

As far as your 7-11 gas being better, I believe that gas is Citgo gas and from what I understand, its Venezuela oil. Dont think that makes a difference since its all probably refined here so the men behind the curtain can process it to be the junk they formulated to keep the fuel savings low.
As far as the 89 Nissan, its pre OBD2 chip. The OBD1 chip the elites forced on us did stop many successful fuel saving mods that carbed car owners enjoyed but some still found ways around the control chip so a "new and improved" smarter chip was made. The elites couldn't have the masses getting around their control chip and saving gas, NOOOOOO they had to stop that nonsense. Freedom is a naughty word to those who would have everybody under their control.
Now that Dart sounds nice and if I remember, it has that 70s Nova/Chevelle/Charger look but the price tag is way beyond my budget. Looking to keep it as low as possible. A couple I am looking at here but the body and interior are junk. Cant have my cake and eat it too but it would be nice to find both body and engine in good shape with a price tag I can reach. I can dream, cant I? If I was going to buy something in that price range, would want it from you since I know you are an motor head I can trust.
Plus if I remember correctly your Dart is over the weight limit that UPS can ship anyway.

Dont know what wires/grounds you are referring to but will look for them and see what they look like if I know where they are. Sometimes simple things are overlooked. Did find one wire unplugged tonight and have no clue what its for or where the post is that it inserts too. Its one of those rubber headed wires that goes on a post somewhere. Working on the bubbler configuration and found it hanging on the left side next to the AC unit I think.

What is the MPG now with the mid-grade Chevron gas? I quit using the MPGR formula today. Used it for over 10 tanks and didn't really notice any difference and ran out of Everclear to mix with. Still adding the Lucas though.
Karl

Hi again Karl! Grounds- well, first I'd check the main batt neg - cable, clean and inspect all round. I like to have a body ground, from batt. neg to the body. Ever replace the batt. cables, or terminals? I'd start poking 'round under the hood to seek out any ground connections to the engine or body- and I have seen funky corroded ground's in wiring on cars in my area, where it's a drier climate than yours. That plus the Mazda's age got me thinking of this. Grounds are easily overlooked, tracking them down is mostly time, little $$ to spend here, scotchbrite pad or steel wool to brighten the loop connectors under bolts/screws. I use plain 'ol Vaseline to coat the batt. terminals after cleaning them up to keep corrosion at bay. Might want to look in a Mitchell manual in wiring schematics, public Library reference section just look in schematic legend to find the ground symbol, often several circuits share common ground points, also search for the ECU's ground points too, that one ought to be checked out. Bad grounds could throw ECU off I think... would be sweet if I'm right here...Dr Jacobs said in his book that bad grounds are 4 to 1 more common than positive 12 volt power wire problems. You mentioned some kinda rust issue on Mazda before, so I would suspect corroded grounds for sure too.

Yeah I guess you're right 'bout UPS and shipping the Dart, LOL! Another option for a carb'ed car is Asian cars that had carb's, w/option of a Weber conversion like the Subie. Problem is these are all getting 30-ish plus yrs old now, rust and age... But I'd check the smog/registration regs as to a conversion first. I've considered finding a Nissan Maxima in '89 to '93 model yr. range w/ 5 spd, after seeing how well my friend's has done. I helped Ron R/R the lower control arms/bushings on a Maxie he had when I first met him in Phoenix, he was going to sell it and later did, was pretty nice one too... Or just something up to '95. model yr, OBD 1 as you point out. I discovered they had allowed for non-smog registrations on cars 25+ yrs old here in NV, so I took advantage w/ Subie.

Good luck again Karl buddy!

Tracy G