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TOPIC: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon

Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 09 Aug 2012 06:31 #1

  • Rick Ensor
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I met Ron at the recent June Science & Technology Conference in Couer D'Alene, Idaho, and was immediately fascinated . This is my first post and I'm really excited about doing the groove on my '92 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 straight six with 277,000 miles. I hadn't paid much attention to the engine over the past three years beyond oil changes. I was shocked recently to see the gas mileage was 13.8! So I replaced the oxygen sensor, distributor cap, rotor, & spark plugs, and added Taylor brand low resistance plug wires; also started running the air pressure 2 lbs. over the recommended 33. Gas mileage jumped by 8 mpg to 21.8! A 60% increase! Can't wait to see what the groove will do.

I just finished watching and studying the new Personal License training video and have several questions (sorry if some of them sound stupid):

1. In order to clear the ECU memory, what is considered a "good ground" for the positive battery cable?

2. Ron cautioned against allowing the bit to contact the case-hardened throttle plate axle and commented that the replacement bits are expensive. How expensive?

3. Ron refers to a "Training Manual". Will I receive one of these?

4. In discussing the capping of the PCV line, Ron warns not to cut and cap the line too close to the "T" in case someone wants to reverse the capping. Why would anyone want to do that?

5. In the discussion relating to the fly-by-wire/computer-controlled throttle bodies, Ron mentions that a bit with a different angle is needed. I'm not aware that I have one. Does this mean I can't do Vortec engines with a Personal License?

6. Are Vortec engines the only engines that use fly-by-wire/computer-controlled throttle bodies?

7. In the discussion around how to tell if you've done the job right: does the described test apply to Vortec engines only or to any and all engines?

Now I have some questions not directly related to the training video:

8. Ron, how do you handle objections to doing the groove due to potential invalidation of new car warranties?

9. My '92 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 straight six has no PCV. It does have a crank case ventilation (CCV) breather tube that runs from the top rear of the valve cover to the intake manifold. The fresh air tube runs from the air filter box to the top front of the valve cover. Should I just leave this set up the way it is? Seems like re-positioning is not an option as there would be no vacuum to pull the air through the valve cover.

10. Would it be a good idea to pick up an old throttle body from the local salvage yard ($10) to practice on? I think I've heard Ron say, "No, just dive right in; if you mess it up that's JB Quick is for." On the other hand practice makes perfect. Also I wonder how much unnecessary wear is created by one practice session, being mindful of those "expensive" bits.

11. I also want to increase the spark plugs' gaps. Are there any pros and/or cons to doing this either before or after the groove?

12. Finally, I can't seem to enter any personal details into my Profile. Is this feature not working?

Looking forward to being an active groover and member of the team!

Rick Ensor

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 09 Aug 2012 08:17 #2

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Hi Rick and welcome to Gadgetmanland!:cheer: I wish I had been at the Science conference in Idaho, Ron really smacked the ball out over the fence there from what he and others have been saying!!

OK, you post a lot of good questions, freind. It's late and my eyes will work for ahwhile, so I will get a start for you...

To clear ECU memory: pull BOTH + and- batt.cables from battery, connect the cable ends w/ a jumper wire, I use a wire w/ alligator clips. Keep cables away from batt!! then you can turn ignition switch w/ key to run position, and turn on headlight switch. I do this while I pull the throttle body off. Leave this way for maybe at least an hour or more though Ive heard elsewhere just a few min. will do. This clears ECU memory back to stock factory settings. I leave like this till I reinstall the TB. Obviously turn off headlight switch and ignition I remove key as positive assurance there is no extra load in system when rteconnecting cables, I conn Neg cable last.

Just keep bit away from digging into throttle shaft/axle, which is usually hardened steel. I mount the TB in a Panavice model 301, This allows me to hold the Dremel flexshaft in both hands or use a hand to steady the other. Use a moderate speed on Dremel, on my model 4000 I usually use about 15 on the speed dial. Others may do different. I keep a small cap from spray can w/ mix of PB Blaster penetrating oil and cutting Oil and dip bit in it to keep cool/lubed, that preserves these precious bits!

Esp first few times it takes learning to get used to cutting Groove, my exp. was bit likes to riccochet a little till ya get used to controlling it. A cheap practice TB is a great idea IMHO,some have suggested to do a few practice Grooves w/ small bit to get feel, you could even then enlarge w/ med then large bit. You sound careful in your questions; I am methodical, just try it--
It feels great when you complete the first One!!

Look in Welcome to Gadgetman Land! The Gadgetman Groove: The World's Best in Fuel Economy here in Personal Liscense Program under topic First Real Groove. My first One was exactly the Jeep you are starting out with!:) So Rick there are some hints for ya to help out, look around the Index section top left front page others have done Jeep TB's as well.

On PCV Valve re-routing, I and others have posted a LOT of stuff about that all around the site. Again check Index section in Documents and read and Read some more.

In order for us to help you, Rick it always helps to take photos of your work/projects and attach them to your postings, Everyone benefits from that!

As to bits, they are all the same,3 sizes, nothing special for vortec's.There IS a different technique for Vortecs using our standard bits. Ron has revised the Bit angle for ALL Groove jobs to recommended 22.5-30 degrees. That being the angle of bit shaft relative to TB bore wall. Just hold a bit in your fingers, touch the throttle blade/plate with top of cutter edge then slide bit down throttle plate till bit touches bore wall. Elevate bit shaft at back end so shaft is 22.5--30 degrees angle up from the TB bore wall. Notice that as you do this the BOTTOM of cutter ball pulls away from touching the throttle blade/plate. Ron explains about this in your training DVD. A hint here: experienced Gadgetfolk will notice that w/the Original technique like you see in my pics in the First Real Groove post, the bit leaves a "rash" on the throttle blade. Grooves cut w/revised angle leave far less rash, 'cause bit is only touching throttle blade at TOP edge instead of full contact of flat side of bit. You apply moderate pressure down straight against bore wall maintaining the angle as steady as possible. As bit starts cutting groove it moves down and away from the throttle blade; leaving far less "rash"

Clear as mud?:( Well Rick I hope I've answered part of your questions. I tend to get into detail a lot. You have asked a BUNCH of Great questions, I wanted to point in best direction I can;) But it's late now so I've gotta go for now. You will make an Excellent Gadgetman IMHO just by your sharp questions...Read as much as you can here and ask questions, and post pics of your work as you go, so we may help each other Better!

Welcome to GadgetmanLand, Rick!!:woohoo:

TracyG Gadgetman Reno
Tracy Gallaway
Founder and Constant Aide to Gadgetman
Gadgetman Reno, NV
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rick Ensor

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Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: add info.

Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 09 Aug 2012 15:30 #3

  • Gadgetman
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Hello, Rick!

Seems that Tracy has once again been extremely thorough with his response. He is going to be going places as The Groove takes a larger foothold on the planet because of his attention to detail and the level of concern he holds for all.

As of this moment, there are no bits available except in the one or two remaining personal licenses. I have searched for over a year and a half to find someone to make them for me, and now, we are out of options. Should you know someone who could make them, PLEASE let me know ASAP.

The manual you ask about is in digital form and is included on your training DVD along with a video. Please examine the disk and you'll see it there. If you have any problems with that DVD let me know and I'll send you a replacement.

And the profile... THAT has been one of the biggest burrs under my saddle! I can't figure it out, and have given up on finding someone to fix it in situ.

So, we are going to be rolling out a BRAND NEW SITE!!! In THIS one, you will be able to edit your profile and we will have a vastly enhanced navigation. This is being constructed right now. My biggest concern with that was the Forums. These will propagate nicely to the new Drupal base.

When you see Randy Timmerman here, you can thank him and his team for all they're doing that you can't see-YET!

I am excited for you all here. Together, we are making a tremendous difference for the entire planet, and it will only get better the longer we follow the Gadgetman Mantra:

Do the mods.
Do the MODS.
DO THE MODS!

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 10 Aug 2012 19:14 #4

  • Rick Ensor
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Tracy,

Thanks so much for your thorough response. Which Panavice model did you get? I'm assuming the 350, as that looks like the most veratile.

Rick

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 10 Aug 2012 20:26 #5

  • Rick Ensor
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Tracy,

Just took a look at the link to the pics of your work on the Jeep TB. What is your assesment of Dave's suggestion about simply adjusting the throttle stop screw? Would the fact that now with the plate being slightly open require that the groove be placed a little further toward the manifold end of the TB?

And, what about his suggestion for simply drilling a hole into the throttle plate? If this is a good idea, why doesn't Ron teach it?

Rick

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 12 Aug 2012 17:34 #6

  • Rick Ensor
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Hi Ron,

Since the profile feature is not functional, I have no way of contacting Garret Hill of Ashland, Oregon. I really want to link up with him as I have no one locally to collaborate with. Will you send me his email address and/or phone number?

Thanks in advance,

Rick Ensor

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 12 Aug 2012 20:51 #7

  • TacomaKarl
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Hi Rick,

You want to position the groove as per normal, when you adjust the throttle plate idle it will adjust slightly into the groove without issue.

Karl Fortner
Tacoma, Washington

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 13 Aug 2012 00:55 #8

  • Gadgetman
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Garrett is non-functional as a Gadgetman, Rick. I apologize. He showed so much promise, but couldn't manage to stay in touch.

As so many do, they see the promise, but Life gets in the way. It is my belief that we get what we think (and talk) about. As you look around you, start paying attention to the people around you. What they say versus what they do.

Most speak of failure in many respects, and you cannot hear a single word of success. If you are to be a success with us, you must do one thing above all else: Build friendships with other members of the team.

To build success in Life, you must do only one thing: Speak in terms of success, no matter the challenges Life presents. The challenges are only to make sure YOU know you are worthy!

Your next best contactee will be Karl Fortner of Tacoma. He's got a gift!

Ron

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Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 13 Aug 2012 05:18 #9

  • Tracy Gallaway
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Hi Rick mine is a Panavice#301, their main common version, works great though I sometimes wish I had the one w/ shorter shaft. Don't worry too much 'bout idle stop screw ya can always adjust afterwards if ya like. You see in that post thread just how I did it, it was my first, it worked Great. This was on a high mile way out of tune beater my neighbor buddy let me play guniea Pig with, surprised us both w/ outcome!:woohoo:

Listen to Karl and Ron! And as I said, if ya can git a junkyard one to practice on that is what I did, I learned a lot on this jeep groove Project!

happy Grooving, TracyG!
Tracy Gallaway
Founder and Constant Aide to Gadgetman
Gadgetman Reno, NV
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Last edit: by Tracy Gallaway. Reason: punctuashun

Re: Hello From Jacksonville, Oregon 13 Aug 2012 23:20 #10

  • Rick Ensor
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Thanks, Tracy. I ordered the 350, with the 9" jaw opening distance. On the 301, I was concerned that with only a 2 1/4" jaw opening, some TB's may not fit into it. Plus I will be able to use it for other types of jobs. I like your idea of bolting it to a heavy metal plate.

I've picked up two TB's from a local salvage yard to practice on, $10 each.

Rick Ensor

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