TOPIC: First Practice Groove

Here are pics of my first groove. This is a practice run on a TB from a Plymouth Neon 2.0, maybe a '97, I found in a salvage yard.

First I cleaned the thing with Berryman's Carbeurator Choke & TB Cleaner, as it was really caked on the fuel injection side.

I worked out the angles following Luke Wickenhauser's instructions relating to the scribing tool he designed. The throttle plate was only 9 degrees off of perpendicular. After drawing out the angles as Luke described, my distance for the groove was a surprising 3/32", the same as Luke's whose throttle plate was 12 degrees. Seems like the 3 degree difference would have resulted in a wider gap for me (more that 3/32"). I chaulk it up to differences in our methods of measuring the angles.

See photo below for my scribing tool. I used masonite. My logic was telling me that I didn't need to fashion an angle on the business end of the scribe. I simply placed the scribing pin 3/32" back from the perpendicular end of the tool. By placing the blunt end of the scribe up against the throttle plate and taking care to keep it square to the plate, I scribed a decent line on the TB wall. Also notice that I cut the corners off the business end of the scribe so as to scribe a little closer to the plate axle.

The cutting fluid I used is SafeTap Plus, advertised on the front of the bottle as having no solvents, no mineral oils, no oily residue, no 1,1,1-Trichloroethane (metho chloroform) which is bad for the central nervous system and bad for the the ozone. In any case, the bit stayed cool through the cutting of the six cuts.

In making the cuts I first used my variable-speed Dremel 395. What I like about it is that I can kind of guess, based on the notches on the variable switch, about where 15,000 RPM is. However, the motor tended to get pretty hot in my hand. So I switched to my old Dremel 732 (1/5 hp) with the flex extention. No problem here with a hot motor, but absolutely no way to guess the RPMs.

I'm not all that happy with the six cuts I made. Upon completion, I noticed that as I proceeded from the unit's left to right, the distance from the throttle plate increased. I didn't follow the scribed line very well. You can see this growing gap in the photo. In making the first cut, I discovered the bit wants to wander to the right, so that when finished with the cut, the curved part of it is skewed to the left. So I learned that I have to exert pressure a little more to the left as the cutting is happening if I want a curve that is equal on both sides. Then the next thing to notice in the photos is that holes 1,2,3 & 4 are too far apart. Holes 4,5 & 6 seem nicely spaced relative to each other. Then in checking how much play the bit demonstrates when placed in each hole, holes 4,5, & 6 lock in the bit pretty nicely, but holes 1, 2, & 3 allow too much lateral movement of the bit. Finally, I noticed that I went through to the outside in hole 1.

So before I attempt the groove on my '92 Cherokee 4.0, I will do another practice. I pulled a second salvage TB from a Chrysler 2.5. So I'll practice on that or I may choose to fill in the groove I just accomplished on the Plymouth Neon TB and re-do it.

One other critique item is that I think I could have made the first cut a little closer to the plate axle. I was maybe over cautious about not letting the bit get too close the hardened steel axle. Closer placement would also contribute to accommodating more than six cuts.

Take a look at the Idle Air outlet just above the top throttle plate. This seems out of the way of the groove air. So I conclude, no re-routing is required.

In summary, I'm open to comments/critiques from any and all, including thoughts about the following questions

1. Is six holes about right? I'm wondering whether I could have managed seven, if holes 1-4 were closer.

2. Is there any approximated way to know the RPMs my Dremel is putting out? Or is this just a matter of getting experience?

3. Am I right that Idle Air does not need re-routing?

You are really working yourself-AND your BITS-to DEATH cutting The Groove like this.

I think you just may want to do either one of two things.

1) Read the Manual. It took me two years to come up with an effective methodology in print. You would do well to read the blasted thing.
2) Watch the Training Video. ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

You are not the only one who does not avail themselves of the information at their disposal, thinking "That's just a groove. No problem!

As you look at the forum posts in various headings, you will find those that ARE and those that are NOT successful. This is almost ALWAYS due to the ability to the trainee to follow instructions.

But you have to expose yourself to the instructions before they can do you any good!

So, GET INTO THE MATERIALS BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER.

This groove will show diminished gains and I would be surprised should you report more than a 5% increase in mileage.

In the materials, you will find out why...

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to voice my frustration.

Ron,

I need your phone #. We need to talk. I viewed the video. I took detailed notes. I studied the manual. No body wants to do this right more than me.

Ron

Whoa!Is my face red? Upon second detailed review of the video, I clearly see the error of my ways. I guess I was too anxious to get cutting. Well, I guess this is what the learning process is all about. I'll try again and hopefully have something prettier to show you all.

Rick

Hi Rensor, well you ARE trying...!

But as you found out, that's not quite IT how ya did it!

You can start your initial cut closer to the axle left end.

Luke's Jig is cool, but it looks to me like you have too wide a gap between throttle blade and bottom of your cuts. That wide a gap will result in late engagement of Groove by throttle blade. I made a simple jig from a business card folded in half, then folded to yield a 30-60-90 triangle with little wings at its base. I use it as a rough visual guide to show me max up angle of 30 deg. for the bit.

In the training materials you will see how Ron overlaps the cuts by about a half-bit width as the cuts proceed left to right. Don't worry, Bro, it does take practice. Ya did the smart thing by picking up practice pieces IMHO. You are also smart to use a good cutting oil! As to Dremel speed-well I use a Model 4000 w/flex shaft it has speed on the dial. You will have to find a speed that can cut yet not get bit very hot.

Just review the training materials thoroughly, and continue to read around this site to pull in the info.

Take it easy on the bits, though, ya only got 3! They can do many Grooves if you are nice to 'em!

Oh, and it looks to me like the IAC port on this TB enters the manifold separately, however consider the airflow potential of the fully-open IAC valve's outlet into this separate port. If this one's IAC stays partly open all the time I would consider finding a way to restrict it , esp. in a hot to moderate climate zone. If far up north more likely to leave alone, or at least use less restriction. An open IAC valve reduces manifold vacuum.

Rensor I applaud you fully sharing your experience w/ us all! Ron and everyone else IMHO wants you to Succeed!! 1. Study, 2. Think, 3.Do the Mods, 4. make Mistakes,5. Learn from mistakes 6. Think, 7. Do again, and so on...

Hey at least we aren't in some ancient Mystery School where after months of study and devotion you must climb the mountain, to answer the high Priest-King's question...whereupon the Priest-King whacks you w/ his stick and points back down the mountain, saying in a guttural growl, "GO!" and so it goes for Years until he may finally not strike you w/ his Stick...

Keep At It!

TracyG GadgetmanReno

Hi Rick,

Sounds like you may have figured it out but I threw together a quick drawing to
give you an idea of the cutting process.




Much easier on the tools, bit and operator to take small bites in this manner and the idea being to make one contiguous trough in the TB wall, ie: THE GROOVE.

It's called learning, we all learn by it.

Karl Fortner
Tacoma, Washington
253-820-2987

Roll the axle about 70 degrees CCW in this diagram and you got it.

I add my applause to the other guys. It is only the most intelligent of us that leap after only a cursory glance. The least intelligent will ponder and fret-sometimes for years-before acting on an opportunity.

Sadly, the information is most usually available and we, in our rush to achieve a new adventure, fail to full digest what is there.

Continue leaping, but it is a wise man who looks very thoroughly at unfamiliar terrain before starting on any quest!

When we learn to not be compelled by outside (or inside) anxieties, then we have the power to become the master...