TOPIC: Back in the promised land.

Well, it's been a very, very long time. I honestly have not done a groove in a while and realize the "groove technology" has probably changed, so I need help getting up to speed. But I know gadgetmen and women are always there to help. Just direct me which door togo through, which road to take.

Greetings from Northern Michigan!

Scott

Welcome back Scott! Really glad to see you again!

We Gadgetmen's application of Ron's famous Groove remains about the same as when he taught us. I'm fuzzy on details, but I recall you have been an Important Gadgetman, you have worked w/ Ron before.

Gadgetman Greg Kusiak in Ontario Canada last year added focus to the other additional Mods we do. He coined the phrase Pre-Groove Preps as a way to give focus to them. You remember, things like PCV re-route, spark plug gap increase, tire pressure, the RVS friction modifier shown in the Gas Saver section on the front page. He had a whopping increase in efficiency last year on a Ford Ranger, wasn't it, Greg, before he was able to Groove it. Using these just these other mods. Greg uses the handle heysoundude in here w/ us, and a very good guy he is, IMHO.

Now Ron is working to introduce a whole new field of application of Wave Form Technology--WFT. Which is a way of giving focus to the Groove's effect in a more scientific language. We are going to hear and learn a LOT more about WFT in coming months! (at least those Ron confides in for now).

Remember that name-- Wave Form Technology.

An analogy of all this could be- the US space Program in the 1960's. We have been working thru the Mercury and Gemini programs, if you will. And we have together learned, and proven a lot.

Think of dear Ron as Werner von Braun...

In Ron's fertile and Determined mind, there is an Apollo Program, called Wave Form Technology.

All I will say, for now, is- Recall if you were alive back then, the incredible leap of Faith, the Bravery, the unlimited power of Imagination involved in that great Project.

The awesome never since equalled might of the Saturn V's combined five F-1 engines-- whose seven and a half million pounds of thrust in that first stage, sent Man on his journey to the Moon. That rattled peoples insides, and broke windows 12 miles away! And that was just for starters.

Well, there's some hyperbole. But, anyhow, Scott, Welcome back!!

More to come. My email add is: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and my phone is 775 544-7692. if ya ever want to chat.

Scott, for starters, do you recall any Q/A about any Gadgetman stuff from years ago?

Tracy G

So shall I wait for this WFT to become commonly known, before getting the TB modded?

Also no need to be formal with the Q/A, not exactly looking for mileage benefits as much as performance, and have looked through all the products you offer (nice pot resistors by the way), but I am interested in the RVS, although i have my doubts how much that would help oil control rings that fail due to varnish build up from 400 degree Fahrenheit head temperatures.

The Saturn guy that called - Ryker C.

Medtactics, the WFT stuff is a ways out now, it is all still in development. I'm putting the name out now just to say it is in the works. I'd get your ride Grooved in the meantime! The Gadgetman Groove, applied by a Gadgetman, is what we still have now.

Nobody has ridden aboard the "Saturn V" yet, we are still in the "Gemini" stage.

Tracy G

So i guess in the mean time what is the performance benefit of the mod, beside artificially increasing CFM at part throttle and inducing laminar flow turbulence? Also I haven't seen warnings about this not working on DFI systems (besides diesels), I have noted multiple vehicles that have received the mod and lost mileage that have DFI.

Hello Scott! welcome back, (relative) neighbour!!! If you would be so kind, would you please check out (and chime in) on 2 of my topics on the forums? If memory serves and things haven't changed, you may benefit from some of the stuff discussed, as well as help enlighten the community here



Ryker - I'm impressed in your short time in these parts that you picked up on the turbulence aspect of the groove. We've not really applied any science to this (yet, hopefully), choosing to "shadetree mechanic" our way through so far. I've poked around a bit trying to get to some sort of conclusion, but the best I've come up with is that the groove increases the Reynolds Number of the intake tract of ICEs in addition to better mixing the air and fuel for better combustion...and I'm no scientist by any means. The result is higher engine efficiency and increased power. Unfortunately, with great power comes great responsibility: by making an engine better at using fuel, you can use a LOT of fuel if you drive at high power often.
I'm unsure what the acronym DFI stands for, but if you mean Direct Injection rather than port injection. I'm not sure we've got any definitive evidence that the groove is more effective in one type of engine over the other; we need to make sure that it's not drivers using their right foot for thrill purposes before we can say "the groove doesn't work in these cases", right?
now, as far as RVS and similar treatments are concerned, I've used them on 2 vehicles so far and in both cases they have ended up running smoother and more efficiently. I'd definitely get your powertrain treated as part of a pre-groove prep so that when your grooved engine starts making power better, you can get the most of it to the road as efficiently as possible.

Couple things I'll drop in here:

Ryker- I'd say the Groove isn't recommended for Direct Injection engines. As I understand (no expert here) w/ DFI the fuel is injected direct into the chamber, similar to diesels. This greatly limits the ability to affect the air pressure (vacuum) levels the fuel sees upon injection. DFI means the fuel is injected in a closed environment, or one nearly so.

As there has yet not been exact true scientific measurements of the Groove's effect- merely about 2000 or more applications that we think we know of. I hold to a multi-part basic theory of what happens.

First, as you say, mechanically speaking, the Groove creates an enlarged throttle bypass channel that increases CFM air delivery just off idle position. That by itself- can boost off idle power and throttle response.

But there is much more too. Incoming air, some of it boundary layer flow along the bore wall, and some from the main airstream, is trapped in the Groove during the first half of piston travel on the intake stroke. The piston accelerates down the bore in the first half of the intake stroke. This causes incoming airflow to speed up as atmospheric press. forces air into the expanding cylinder volume. The throttle plate is at an angle, one side is lower in the bore than the other, seen at closed throttle. The Groove is placed just under the lower side at closed throttle. The Low side of the plate, upstream side, sees higher air pressure and greater flow around the plate edge, than the opposite upper side. This is due to the plate's angle across the bore--it does not sit tangent to the bore centerline when closed. Air is considered a fluid, and is compressible.

OK- so as incoming air is accelerating and CFM increases during the first half of the intake stroke--a significant % of that airstream gets trapped in the Groove. This in turn reduces the mass of the air that escapes being trapped in the Groove. That means we are reducing density OF that airmass, in an already lower-than atmospheric pressure region. In other words, we increase the Vacuum level. Gasoline must be in a vapor state, mixed w/ oxygen, to burn. IF you reduce the air pressure it is exposed to when the injector opens, it will evaporate more readily.

So this goes on, as the piston is reaching the midpoint in the bore, it's still accelerating. Incoming airflow is increasing too. And the twin counter-rotating vortices of air in the Groove are spinning faster and faster, AND building volume, like twin tornados. ( Don't confuse this word with that other product of the same name!) It's like pulling back a slingshot.

Now, the piston reaches midpoint in the bore, peak speed, peak airflow around the throttle plate, peak pressures and volumes in the Groove. AND- peak vacuum level in the intake tract below the throttle plate.

Now the piston begins to slow towards BDC. Incoming airflow speed and volume starts to reduce around the throttle plate. Gasoline has been spraying from the injector, and much more has evaporated in the lower-than stock pressure environmment. The increasing airspeed and volume that fed the two vortices in the Groove are reducing. These vortices are at far higher pressure than the rest of the incoming air, but the motion dynamics that fed them are decreasing. So now they seek equilibrium with the incoming airflow, and blow out into the incoming airflow.

The slingshot is released. Now these vortices roll down the intake tract, and create a pressure pulse all the way down past the intake valve and into the chamber. This beneficial turbulence serves to further mix the air/fuel vapor mix in the combustion chamber. Result is- more of the fuel charge is in a vapor state, less is in liquid state.(I think the Scientists would say that the Phase change rate of the gasoline has increased). More of the fuel burns IN the chamber, less in the exhaust tract and cat. converter. More of the fuel makes power, less makes pollutants.

I believe this explains (at least to me) why and how the Groove works. And why it isn't so good for DFI!

There's my 17 cents!

Tracy G

Hmm that last bit though is the hammer effect, the intake pressure wave which actually comes from the cylinder reaching BDC. The groove is much like ths collector creating a scavenging effect on the exhaust side, but on the intake side. But still, what about the racing performance at WOT.

If I had the time and materials on hand i would do a wind tunnel test myself, fairly easy and cheap to make for $500 for most of the equipment.