TOPIC: 2003 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5L

Tracy,

Thanks for the reply. I found the error in the wiring from the manufacturer who put the O2 sensor together. Comparing the replacement to the old one, I noticed the wires in the wrong location. Pulled them out, plugged them back in the proper sequence, according to my old plug harness, and voila, codes gone, car running better.
While I was under the hood, one code kept coming back with RPMs lower than expected. Guess my Subi doesn't like the restricted 1/8" idle air hole. So I took out a 5/32" bit, and with my fingers, enlarged the hole. Car runs smoother, and no codes. Avg RPM's, 615 at idle. Just slightly up from the first round at 550 (with 1/8" hole).
I want to believe that there is better power, not high levels, but better power when going up hills, not having to get on the throttle with climbing and trying to maintain speed. Car noticibly shifts smoother. Maybe it's the cold starts and immediate power when it's cold, once it warms up, the power is a bit less.
Going back to one of Ron's vid's, he showed shaping the throttle plate, giving it a slight radius on the back side. Has this been done on your vehicles? Would this be a help to increasing my power shortages? Ron talks about using this on the racing teams, and he even shows how to do it, but I have seen nothing about this reported on any of the posts as of yet.

Justus

The reason it's not mentioned often is because the gains in power are minimal compared to what The Groove provides. You really can't tell the difference of an additional 2-3 horsies!

Personally, I only do this mod in very rare cases. It just isn't worth the brass shavings flying through the air! They are TERRIBLY painful, and get into EVERYTHING. They aren't like the aluminum shavings AT ALL!

Still, every little bit counts, right?

Ron

Hi Justus, glad ya fixed the rear O2 sensor!

Throttle plate shaping, to me, well I would only do it on a thick enough throttle plate, like the big GM Vortec V8 TB's. My Subie's Hitachi carb plate is THIN brass, WAYY to thin for that.

My Subie acts just like yours w/ more power at cold engine, when it's in open loop and O2 isn't heated up yet. Yours should be a heated O2, mine is the early one-wire type (1985).

When I first bought it--it was SLOW, I mean molasses-in-January slow. Engine seized 2 piston skirts 5 months later. Rebuilt engine, and a year later, started again. I had to get creative in search of gains: emissions inspections and lack of aftermarket support for THIS engine.

Notice how hot-rodders and Rice-Tuners can use lotsa bolt-on parts. This car has to get past emissions visual tampering check at smog time, and about only direct bolt on part is a Weber carb, but that would fail inspection! (I'm told the laws have changed here, may be able to eliminate smog check due to age, just pay more to register it.)

Still thinking about Weber swap, I'm already married to this ride, paid for it several times over w repairs/upgrades...Weber 32/36 DGEV looks Groove-able might need epoxy buildup around carb primary bore. Also thinking of changing cat's this has 2 of 'em, roll dice spend $$ just to see if it works!?

I use semi-synthetic oil, full synth. too likely to cause leaks, an issue on older Subies! 44PSI tires at 48 PSI to cut rolling resistance. Airtabs on rear body to cut aero. drag. XADO engine treat. in oil friction/wear reduction. Plasma Jet Ignition w/Torquemaster plugs( a SERIOUS project, I proved it gives benefit, but prob. $500 and hours&hours of research and install time). Turbo-style muffler larger cat-back exh. pipe.

HAFC HHO generator, doesn't do much, but hey it's already there, only add distilled water, special electrolyte still works 3 yrs in there. Dan Merrick's Merrick's Gas HHHN another option but more$$$.

Latest mod is weirdest one by far--a Hologram encased in plastic firmly taped to bottom of gas tank. Ran across this yrs. ago wrote off as BS. Found much more info about it recently, let me tell ya, this science/concept will twist your head. A Hologram causing changes in behavior in physical matter...?? Huh? Quantum Physics, electron tunneling and quantum absorbtion theory in practice. It's stupid-easy to install, but expaining how/why it works, well it feels like explaining witchcraft. The lead scientist of this program claims to have Thousands of applications for this.

Main thrust for this hologram is emissions reduction. Takes time for an older car (mine) to clean out and exhaust to clean up, the newer the car the faster the results. My Subie has always had multiple idle quality disorder, has mind of its own, idle quality can change one stoplight to next, has always bugged me. Hologram has been on there about a month. Started noticing that idle quality has smoothed out considerably, much less variation now. Power seems a bit better too. (but hard to rule out my own mindset here). Exhaust seems to smell less as well. Seems to be causing benefits, but full effect might take more time. MPG, well I will have to do another Orange Test to see.

We Americans are conditioned to Instant Gratification. You can have one cookie now, or wait a while and get two...

So I would say: The Groove itself gave excellent instant results once properly done. Ignition mods helped significantly. Tire press. helps too (Freebie!) XADO and the hologram sticker are improving engine "personality", more low-end torque than before I shift the 5 speed up earlier now.

It's challenging to get more from a stodgy Subaru. Think in terms of Systems, and how they work. Now that you have improved the idle RPM and the rear O2, maybe a re-learn? Everything costs $$ gotta decide cost/benefits.

I told Ron and still believe-the Groove was/is the single most Effective mod I've ever found! Thanks Again, Ron!!

Tracy G

Update on my '85 Subaru: the Holidium Labs emissions reduction hologram chip on the gas tank works. As I explained in my reply to Juan Reyes, it's ridiculously simple to install. and it looks like they have just incorporated additional stuff into the plastic chip the Hologram is encased into.

This is the application of advanced science in a way that I think is effective, based on how my stubborn Subaru is now improving. Doesn't happen instantly--but over a month since install the car does run much more consistently w/ more power. Idle quality much improved. Leaned out idle mix screw far more than ever before possible. After Grooving and modding this engine/car in more ways than I ever have before, this crazy little plastic hologram chip taped to my gas tank seems to have finally tied it all together.

The Holo Tree – Online Holistic & Metaphysical Store the holotree is the seller, Holidium Labs is the developer.

I would say this hologram chip is an enabling technology, doesn't compete w/ the Groove. And I'm starting to think I might not need to replace those 2 catalytic converters after all, the exhaust is cleaning up. BTW, I cleaned off a few square inches of the gas tank bottom, then taped the chip on firmly w/ metal HVAC aluminum tape, don't wanna loose the little bugger!

I think the manufacturer has added Orgonite into the clear plastic of the chip since I got mine, They seem to be accellerating the development of this tech.

Call me crazy if ya like, but my Subie is happier now!

Tracy G

Update on plug gapping. This weekend I spent with some dear friends, one of which is also a personal license holder. I showed my groove from my car and we discussed the restriction of air flow to the IAC pathway. The car has been running a little rough at idle, but not stalling. I did get an error code, "Idle lower than expected." Deleted it, and the car runs fine. Just didn't like seeing the light on my dash. Put everything back together after opening my hole in the IAC to 3/16". Then we talked about gapping plugs.
This gets interesting. A couple months ago, after not receiving any mileage gains, I purchased new plugs (Iridium), wires and coil. I shared with my friends that I had my plugs gapped as much as .070 before, with the other plugs, but saw no gains, and backed them down to .053, 20% over my factory settings. Partially showing off, and frustrated with zero mileage gains, I decided to go back to gapping plugs. Using the gauge, and the jump of .015" to .020" jump per adjustment, the process began. I eventually stopped, out of fear mostly, with the gap in my plugs being at .103". Keep in mind, factory gap calls for .044". I am happy to report the car idles fine, runs as smooth as before, and seems to hold power in the hill climbs, with less need for downshifting. I want to buy a new set of plugs, and put the electrode straight out as opposed to at a 45 degree angle that it currently is, just to see if the car will sputter.
Just thought I would share this info. Car is running fine with gapped plugs at .103". Who da thunk?

Justus

FINALLY!!!!!!

Yesterday was the day of change. I talked with Ron on Tuesday. We discussed my angle of the groove. Folks please pay attention to the angle that the air flows into the groove. This is what was holding me back. My throttle cable was in need of a small adjustment to remove slack from years of driving.
I reconditioned the ECU and the car is like never before. The power and response is so intoxicating. The car drives better, and has more power. I just filled the tank last night in process of reconditioning the ECU. So I have no efficiency to report at this time. But I finally have the power that I have been looking for. The exhaust is great, no smell, and the plugs are still gapped to a rediculous .103". Once the MAPSTER arrives, I'm planning on installing this as well, and hope to see gains in fuel efficiency finally. I thinking the computer is countering my potential for fuel savings. Will keep everyone informed as results are collected.

Justus

Justus that's cool that your Subaru likes the huge gap. I'd be curious about how long the plugs will go like this before they degrade. When they do start misfiring could cut the ground electrode OFF one to give a big open spark path.

That would be a redneck shortcut copy of the Torquemaster's I run. Except T-master's are stainless steel. Mine are running OK so far w/ about 2K miles using Plasma spark.

Good that you were willing to try something different!

Tracy G

Hello Justus this Carlos in Tallahassee FL 850-528-0573 just wondering what other updates do you have in reference to the Groove on you Subaru. Please let me know. I am still working on my Previa.

Justus, think I missed something here--are ya sayin' that all you did was tighten up slack in the thottle cable and THAT is what finally did it? I mean its GREAT that you got a big boost--but I don't get it, I'd think you merely removed a delay in throttle response vs. where you foot is, and of course you now get W.O.T. when ya floor it...?

scratchin' my melon... but glad ya got IT!

Tracy G

Carlos,
I have been out of the loop for a while. Life has been busy. I am waiting to install the MAPSTER until I have the plan for the location of unit placement, and how I am going to run (hide) loose wires. I like a clean looking engine compartment, and have to plan to do it once. My concern is in the event of having to remove the engine, for rebuild, or rear main seal kits, or whatever, that a mechanic doesn't cut the wires because they are hanging up. I want to have a harness that can be disconnected before the engine is removed. I am working on the plan of this.
As it stands, the power is there, however, still no fuel gains. I have done some highway driving, recently out of state, 5 hrs one way, and got up to 27 MPG. I believe I will see 30, with the right tweeks. I just talked with Justin Clark at Greener Planet Ent. who informed me that my power and lack of fuel economy will be changed for the better with the product RVS that was posted by Ron. The hope is that the worn tolerances will be repaired and I will see some better gains. I am sorry that this is not the most informative answer to the question you posed.
The groove was done wrong the first time. And the second. The third groove, was done, right I hope, (based on results I'm questioning it, but it could be a computer sabotage) but with all the JB Quik that was in the oversized working area, the groove may not be to the tight tolerances to give preferred results. I am honestly tempted to purchase a replacement TB from the junkyard, and give it another go. The only place around me has one for $75. That is on the horizon, but not a purchase that I will be making today.
As I continue this project, posts will be made. I appreciate your inquiry, and am giving greater thought to putting the MAPSTER into the engine system, sometime this week. Thank you.

Justus

Tracy,
You are correct, I took out the delay. However, my driving habit is such that I feather the pedal unlike most drivers, I operate my vehicle with as little throttle as I can get away with. Now with no delay, my feathering technique is getting immediate response. When I push harder, still less than previously, the response is noticeable.
Oh and BTW, I forgot to mention this when responding to Carlos, Justin Clark discussed with me the mileage of my car, and possibly worn cylinders being my ghost in the machine that is sabotaging my mileage gains. His product should restore tolerances and return power to me that I forgot I used to have, and will ultimately be the cherry on top, increasing my mileage. I'm waiting til next month to move on this opportunity. I will keep the post updated with results as they are available. Always a pleasure Tracy.

Justus

Justus thanks for that. All you say makes sense. Engines do get worn, obviously. And seems to me that your and my Subaru were low powered relative to their weight. Mine was stone-slow before the rebuild.

So anything to increase cylinder presure ( a gain in power) and reduce parasitic internal engine friction will help.

To me gains in power and MPG have 2 faces: 1. Increase power. 2. decrease losses.

And I think it wise to view a vehicle as a collection of systems. I think in terms of finding gains and cutting losses in as many systems as can be dealt with by whatever means are practical.

And I will even do the Impractical to a point-- (Plasma Jet Ignition was a real project, much more than the Average Joe would ever consider)

so the RVS sounds very promising, I will look into it closely!

I bet you can find some kind of wire plug setup at a good NAPA parts store for your Mapster.

Tracy G