TOPIC: PCV valve / port / hose??

I can't seem to get the picture to upload and have got to get to work. Ron said I need to put the engine back to normal operating condition. Run the truck and see if the check engine comes on. If it does NOT come one then there must be a pin hole in the groove itself...
So i'll tackle that later tonight / morning...

Thanks again, Greg

Incorrect, Greg.
1) Put all hoses back and reverse anything you've done other than the throttle body.
2) Clear all codes.
3) Drive.
4) If the codes do NOT reappear, then we know it's in the hose connections you made.
5) If they DO reappear, then it's possible there's a pinhole in the Groove allowing air to enter there.

Ron

Hey Guys, I've been back through and double checked all hoses for vacuum leaks. Did find two areas that were suspicious. We are now running on the Groove as of yesterday morning (29th). The original codes that were thrown to start the whole double checking on 4-25 were;
p1131 - MAF (autozone says that concerns the MAF)
p0135 - O2 (autozone says 02 code)

Purchased a scan tool and ran diagnostics myself.
Two codes did show after the Groove was operating after the double check;
po135 - o2 sensor Heater circuit Bank 1
p1131 - Lack of Ho2s11 (Sens indicates lean)

These codes were cleared with a scan gauge. The po135 has not reappeared. The p1131 continues to reappear shortly after being cleared.

Fault Code Definition - P0135 - OBD-II Trouble Code
The Powertrain Computer or PCM has determined that the Oxygen Sensor has taken too long to begin switching after the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor has reached its proper operating range, preventing closed loop fuel control.
OBD II P0135 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1, Sensor 1)
OBD II P0155 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2, Sensor 1)

Can you please advise?

Thank you, Greg

Ok, a little more research shows what Ron originally stated - Vacuum leak! I'm going to take the truck back to Mieneke and have them double check the new o2 sensors just to make sure I didn't get a faulty one. I'll go from there...

Ron is The Man, he's usually right w/ diagnosis!

Your vehicle is teaching you as you go, and...you're Learning!

I remember Mike Hollar told us to always use O.E.M. O2 sensors, aftermarket ones sometimes don't measure up.

Studying this pic--that's a rigid plastic Breather tube that the PCV is re-routed into. Did you get a good sealed connection where that nylon Tee goes to the breather tube? Bit hard to tell w/ my eyes, but looking at it, I think I would cleanly cut the breather tube. I would shorten the cut ends of plastic tube enough to fit short piece of heater hose on each side so I could splice tee into breather tube. Then I'd connect PCV rubber hose onto tee, might need to add a 90 degree bend to PCv hose, or just replace the whole PCV hose w/ a new one to fit.
Does the left end of breather hose go into a rubber boot that's part of intake duct? that's what it looks like to me.

Keep at it, Greg!

Tracy G

Thanks for the insights TracyG.

About the rigid plastic tube that the pcv is "teed" into. My test was to cap ALL open ends of that "T" and tube connection and physically blow while slightly moving and bending the tube - unable to push or hear any air flow. Was that a sufficient enough test for that connection and the other one which I did same thing? The area was also sprayed with carb clean, no fluctuation in idle.

Mieneke tested the 02 sensors and they all tested fine. They also sprayed a lot of the engine with carb cleaner looking for a vacuum leak to no avail. After leaving about 3 miles later the code came back on. My Scan gauge said P1311 - Lack of Ho2s11 (Sens indicates lean). The same code again!
This mechanic at Mieneke is very helpful and open minded to the possibilities of the groove. He is going to look into my problem on his own time to try and help fix it.
He suggested to take a garden hose with the water running at a trickle and run it over the engine to try and find a vacuum leak in hard to spray places...

Not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

Thank you, Greg

Greg,

I have read your posts a couple of times and have to ask a simple question. Did you try putting the hoses back to stock as Ron suggested to make sure that the vacuum leak wasn't coming from the groove?

I only ask because things can change under the hood of your vehicle when you go from 15-17 inches of vacuum to 25-28, especially when plastic gets warm. I have been chasing leaks for about a week now on my truck, seems my (fixes) or permatex gaskets aren't holding up to 27 inches of vacuum.

If I was you I would eliminate the possibility of the leak coming from the groove first and then tackle the hoses if you find the leak isn't coming from the groove. If you can determine that you need to seal up the other connections try to find some hose clamps/sealant to help seal up those connections. If you have to replace some of the plastic tubing with heater hose to make it seal correctly, the hose is fairly inexpensive. Just take one connection at a time, and you'll find that vacuum leak.

Keep us posted on progress and we will all help where we can.

Ken

Hi Ken, thanks for the input. Yes, I did as Ron suggested a few notes back. My latest attempt to find the leak was to set the engine rpm's at 2.5 and then spray all vac areas with carb cleaner (cc). Hoping that the higher rpm's would draw in the cc and reveal the leak. NO LUCK!
Engine still throwing code. I did not spray completely around the manifold, only in accessible spots.

Question: If the Groove is working as it should won't the sensors after the Catalytic converter show a problem because they are not getting as hot as they should? Therefore throwing a code and dumping fuel so they can heat up? Ok, I take that back because if there was no vacuum leak the A/F ratio would be correct and the cats would be functioning normally - I think.

Do we frown on the "smoke" tests to find vacuum leaks?

I had to run some errands and did a quick hwy check of mpg using old school method - I'm down by about 4 mpg's !!!


Dumping Fuel,
Greg

Hi again Greg!

Man your rig is a hard teacher!

Didn't realize you were getting into Jedi School, neither did I , though I quickly realized that when I first met Ron!

i'm light on OBD11 code knowledge, but does your scanner indicate ECM is staying in Open Loop? That would sure kill MPG. Have O2 sensor wire plugs/connectors been checked? Sensor good wiring bad someplace? Ford mentioned a Wiggle Test for wiring/plugs on their vehicles like 30 yrs ago! Just exactly when did this O2 issue surface? Before or after exhaust work? After Groove but before exhaust work? When?? Help me here is this code for an upstream or downstream O2? ...

Starting to think no vac. leak, as ECM ought to add fuel to compensate. Or IF vac. leak, hurts MPG but would not throw this code unless a BIG one? oh man...

PCV hoses etc.: Check all along the hard plastic emission tubes/hoses. A freind had a bad vac. leak on old Lincoln, finally found a crack on small dia. plastic tube. Bugger had crack underneath other tubes/hoses couldn't see it.But it DID react to carb clean. spray nearby. Check EVERY I mean EVERY tube hose etc. that eventually goes to either main air inlet duct, intake manifold or heck even air filt. box (don't know what else might be there).Check visually all possible go out of your way. Apologies if you already have, you are lookin for a hidden Suitcase N###! I dont use smoke test I think some tiny vac. leaks too small to see any smoke! New cars OBD11 ECM is super fast/sensitive. And--Vacuum doesnt care what the tube/hose is, could replace a plastic tube w/ hose and fittings if needed.

This one is gonna kill us when it's found, gonna slap our foreheads!

PS when I fool w/ vac. tubes/hoses I ensure any hose connection is w/ new hose w/ adequate legnth hose to cover entire nipple; Vac. amplificationm Groove creates mandates Anal attention to detail on all vac. connections.

Back to Class w/ Yoda!

Tracy G

Hi T, yes I'm leaning towards the dark side pretty hard ! (NEVER - JESUS IS THE WAY!!!)

I've copied your message here so I can answer each (that I "think" I know).

Tracy wrote:
Didn't realize you were getting into Jedi School, neither did I , though I quickly realized that when I first met Ron! COPY THAT WOOHOO!

i'm light on OBD11 code knowledge, but does your scanner indicate ECM is staying in Open Loop? MY SCANNER DOES NOT TELL ME BUT THAT IS WHAT THE INFO POINTS TO. That would sure kill MPG. Have O2 sensor wire plugs/connectors been checked? Sensor good wiring bad someplace? Ford mentioned a Wiggle Test for wiring/plugs on their vehicles like 30 yrs ago! MEINEKE SCANNED EACH SENSOR AND THEY WERE OPERATING TO SPEC. Just exactly when did this O2 issue surface? Before or after exhaust work? After Groove but before exhaust work? When?? Help me here is this code for an upstream or downstream O2? ...IF MEMORY AND NOTES SERVE, THE OLD SENSORS AND CATS HAD 150K MILES ON THEM ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT. IN THE GROOVE READINGS, 50K FOR O2 SERVICING, I FIGURED THIS PROBLEM NEEDED TO BE DEALT WITH SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. THE FIRST 2 READINGS WERE BOTH UP AND DOWN STREAM, NOW THE READINGS ARE THE SAME ONE UPSTREAM ONLY.

Starting to think no vac. leak, as ECM ought to add fuel to compensate. Or IF vac. leak, hurts MPG but would not throw this code unless a BIG one? oh man...

PCV hoses etc.: Check all along the hard plastic emission tubes/hoses. A freind had a bad vac. leak on old Lincoln, finally found a crack on small dia. plastic tube. Bugger had crack underneath other tubes/hoses couldn't see it.But it DID react to carb clean. spray nearby. Check EVERY I mean EVERY tube hose etc. that eventually goes to either main air inlet duct, intake manifold or heck even air filt. box (don't know what else might be there).Check visually all possible go out of your way. Apologies if you already have, you are lookin for a hidden Suitcase N###! I dont use smoke test I think some tiny vac. leaks too small to see any smoke! New cars OBD11 ECM is super fast/sensitive. And--Vacuum doesnt care what the tube/hose is, could replace a plastic tube w/ hose and fittings if needed.

DOES THE PCV HOSE REALLY MATTER (FYI:IT HAS BEEN CHECKED), I THOUGHT THAT HOSE COULD JUST BE HUNG OVERBOARD FOR THAT DISCHARGE? I DO HAVE IT CAPPED WHERE IT CONNECTED TO THE THROTTLE BODY, AS SHOWN IN PREVIOUS PICS.

THE ONLY HOSES THAT I'VE NOT CHECKED ARE SMALL ONES, SMALLER THAN PENCILS IN CIRCUMFRANCE AND THEY ARE RAN TOGETHER INSIDE WRAP AROUND TUBING... I HAVE SPRAYED THE END CONNECTIONS WITH CARB CLEANER.


MY AIR BOX (BEFORE AIR FILTER) HAS BEEN OPENED WAY UP, I'M GOING TO RESTRICT IT BACK DOWN TO ORIGINAL INTAKE ABILITY AND SEE HOW IT REACTS...


THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INPUT.
BECOMING A JEDI IS VERY TIRING - LUKE, USE THE FORCE!!

'Kay, Greg. So it's just one upstream O2 giving the code. I'll set that aside for right now.

PCV- No you Do NOT want the PCV just dumping overboard. NO. Go back 1 square, just re-connect the PCV hose to original port, see what happens.

Gadgetman philosophy doesn't advocate putting raw pollutants out into atmosphere. Plus, I dunno, but is there any kinda anything looking like a sensor of any type anywhere along PCV> Like does PCV just mount into a rubber grommet, then a hose/tube simply run over to intake/TB, nothing else? Or is there anything else to it?

And did you check you work as Ron says when ya did Groove, inside and outside of TB w/ bright flashlight in a dark room looking for any light peeking thru anywhere. Gotta do that from jump Street, can avoid hair pulling later.

If not, just re-connect hoses back to stock, see what happens. If same situation persists, then pull TB and check your work, I can't remember seeing about that yet.

Re read the training Manual, really Lot of important stuff there, gotta pay attention, little things can mean a lot here.

The Force IS in you and in Groove too. You must listen to what Yoda (Ron) says. If not you will endlessly climb the Mountain and the Learned One will still smite you on the head w/ his Stick till you Get It...(metaphorically)

I had to Learn, 'cause I don't have much hair left for cushion or pulling out! LOL
but the learning never ceases, eh?

Tracy G

Hey Tracy, I would not intentionally dump pollutants in the air. The PCV hose is and has always been rerouted back into AI. I just thought it didn't matter from a vacuum standpoint?
I went back to the start several days ago, checked TB with light source and all hoses - talked directly to Ron about starting over and what to look for...

Starting over completely from stock using ALL original equipment just might be necessary to see if engine runs with out throwing codes.

I'll touch base with Ron first and give an update later...

Thanks Tracy,
Greg