TOPIC: Where to cut The Groove

Ron Hatton wrote: You're going to find the further The Groove is from the plate, the more diminished the effects...

Which might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

My first groove on my vehicle resulted in a MASSIVE surge of power when i feathered the gas on the re-learn drive.
When I say massive, it was like I was being launched into orbit by NASA...and then the engine went into reduced power mode.

Now all I have to do at any speed when flying straight and level is to keep a feather's weight on the gas. the groove does the rest.

Finding that spot can be a bit tricky is my point. a millimeter, a 1/16th" can make a HUGE difference in throttle response, and if that means using a business card to hold the butterfly in the right place - even on non-GM cars - if it works, it's correct.

How many miles have you put on the honda? It took me about 2 tanks to feel the power increase and mileage increase. Also, honda and Acura like to put actuators and bypass valves on the intake manifold and that control air flow. Take a look at this pic of my intake manifold. The actuator controls the intake runners length to supply torque in a broader rpm range.

Greg, I agree completely. My 02 Subaru Outback 2.5L engine did the same thing. I cut with the large bit directly against the plate , this is a cable drive TB. So the power increase was right as soon as the throttle opened. This made shifting the 5 spd. difficult and tweaky. I often had to rev it past I otherwise would have, to avoid stalling it, if I instead tried to keep the throttle "before" the Groove. This was worst when going into Reverse.

So I removed the TB and filled the Groove in w/ JB. I'm deciding if I want to re-Groove it, or get another TB and redo it. Either way, I will use the business card trick to open the plate some, likely a tad more than the business card thickness. The total power/torque increase will be less, I think--but this will maintain driveability. Besides, I think having the power boost occur further in throttle angle % will be more useful in urban and hiway driving.

Grooving w/ fully closed plate, is the Basic method of Grooving, it's just that as Ron taught us, The GM DBW TB's need the business card trick EVERY time. Other vehicles/engines/TB's--it depends.

and, Greg, you're right- just a millimeter, or a few degrees in plate angle, can be a night/day difference!

Tracy G

Drivability was exactly what I had in mind when I (hopefully gently) disagreed with Ron, and your recent example, Tracy, is the perfect one.

Time for bed now that we've taken this thread WAY off course...

How is the re-groove?

I haven't seen any effects from the groove but I'm not surprised because the engine has been eating oil. I just got the issue with the engine fixed today so I'm going to reset the ECU again and start over.

I just have one question about resetting the ECU. In Ron's manual it says to attach the jumper wire and then turn the key to the "RUN" position and turn on the lights. Where exactly am I supposed to attach the jumper wire? Also, how long should I leave it to clear the ECU?

disconnect both +ve and -ve wires from the battery and jumper them together (if you cant make them touch) then turn on the headlights, key in ignition to on/run etc
remember to undo these BEFORE reconnecting the battery.
There may be a specific throttle re-learn procedure for your vehicle, which you should research before following the directions here, but the driving portion will apply to everyone.

Any updates on the Odyssey?

Hello. I got the same hole doing my 2005 odyssey. I put epoxy in the hole to stop it up but ended up blocking the icu with the excess. I had to remove the scew and sensor then drill out the excess epoxy, reinsert the sensor to fix it. after plugging the pcv vale on the front of the engine I went from around 260mpg hwy to over 340hwy after my fourth tank of fuel with way more power. Thank you for your sharing and pics. I will post my videos and pics soon.

Thats awesome! I hope the mpgs's keep climbing bro. Looking forward to your future grooves!

Hi Luke. Hey that's a BIG increase in hiway MPG's!! Congrats!

And, yes- each TB can present issues and challenges. Experience is the Teacher w/ all that happens. You're doing Very Well, so far. I look forward to your further posts, Brother!

Tracy G

Elliot and Luke, any update's on the Odyssey's? I am eger to know if there was more improvements.