TOPIC: Hi Everyone!!!!! Love the forum-Want to start grooving!!!!!!

wouldn't that be making it more complex?

Water boils at 100 degrees C at sea level, lower temps at higher altitudes (lower pressure) and higher at higher pressures (there aren't many places on earth below sea level)...what temp does your engine's coolant system' thermostat open? Further, how close to atmospheric pressure is it inside the catch can? or is it dynamic, or perhaps even slightly on the vacuum side given that downstream of where the PCV gasses re-enter the engine is the intake manifold which is usually under vacuum? I don't think you need that much heat...besides, the exhaust will cool down once you're grooved and using less fuel, right? The engine will have to run around the same temp pre/post groove so that it will stay in closed loop for least fuel delivery.

I don't mean to argue or try to impart any opinion of mine on you as "law" here, but my gut tells me that there's enough (consistent, both before and after the groove)) heat to vapourize catch-can condensate from the engine's coolant system...but I suppose that is completely vehicle-dependant. It may be that exhaust heat is the best way to go on your vehicle, in your climate.

I'm noticing Tracy is keeping quiet here so far...I wonder what his brain is formulating/processing on this topic?? Has he decided to experiment with his Subie based on this discussion? The air up there in Reno (5000' or so above sea level) is a bit thinner and drier generally, and he notices a power increase in the rain...what if he cooks some water vapour into his intake air all the time from what condenses in his catch can?

Greg.

Thank you.

I hope the stuff gets delivered next week....

Well, I just got back from sunny Arizona, and it's COLD here in Reno! I took my 74 Dart Sport to Phoenix and left it with an old car buddy who will show and sell it there for me. I had Perfect weather and driving conditions all the way to Phoenix last week, warm, clear skies, no wind. Coming back couple days ago the weather was worse but not that bad. I drove my friend's '85 Toyota Celica back home, I'll have it here awhile, and when it's decent outside, I'm thinking of Grooving the TB, if my freind wants me to.

I read thru the thread to this point, all the ideas being thrown about. Basically I think there are a lot of good ideas and ways to improve engines' efficiency. Each idea has to be tried on any given car, and tested to see how it does. No other way to do it. What works well in one case may not do as well in another. Gee that's original, huh?

I haven't seen any sign of Mike Hollar in a few years now. I always wished he would come back in here, he's a goldmine of ideas, he's done and worked with the best around IMHO. This is a tweaky field of study, people do come and go.

And, I've already told Martin, that I will ensure that he gets his PL, one way or another. Period.

Thinking in general of the concepts re: "cracking" crankcase condensate- far as the concern of an explosion, or sudden pressure spike in a container being heated. The HHO folks have figured out different ways of using pressure relief or blowoff valves to address that. IF the cylinder, or whatever, is being heated to hi temps, I've seen HHO sites and sellers have devised spring-loaded metal blowoff valves to solve that concern. It's about how much tinkering one wants to do, and one's fabrication skills, or ability to put different things together using existing stuff.

South Africa might indeed have a cleaner gas than we Norte Americanos, and may do well w/ HCS. One way to find out.

Tracy G

Martin,

Sorry to hear about the delay. I know what its like to pay for something and not get it when
expected.
In the mean time I guess you did all the other stuff like regapping plugs and plugging vac leaks.
Did you start on your HCS?
That can be a real patience tester if it doesnt work as planned especially when you try a dozen or so set ups and get 0 long term results results.
Dont know what type of gas you have over there but if it has any color to it, you can guess that the powers that be have added junk to it to prevent you from vaporizing it to improve gas mileage.
If you do and have problems with shilack coating your carb on items like lawnmowers and chainsaws, you can work on a gasoline distilling system to get clear gas so you wont have those problems.
Here is some videos in case you are interested. I am doing this now as I type this.
Can use this stuff in a bubbler or in your single stroke engines you want to last longer.

Hi Tracy.

Thank you once again for all the trouble you are going through to help me solve my PL delivery issues.
You really instill trust in me that I will get sorted eventually.

Yes I have a lot of plans but time and money are two of my main constraints. I will get to work soon though.

I read alot about fuel saving and came across a guy by the name of George Wiseman. I am sure you all know him and his work. As far as I can gather he is the guy who invented the effie for the O2 censors. He has a lot of interesting stuff to say and great ideas.

His website is George Wiseman At Eagle-Research.com . Lot of great stuff to read especially regarding ECU modification and modifying the maf, map and O2 censors for better Fuel economy.

One thing I learned this past few months is that one of the most important things I need to know and understand is how to modify the engine censors to fool the ECU for fuel economy.

I am also getting myself up to speed regarding electronic circuits in order to build my own modification devices.

Karl.

I am sure I will get the stuff soon and then I will feel quite stupid about my rant here. Ha Ha Ha......

Yes Karl and Tracy my feeling is that HCS is the way to go. I have a great plan to get this system working.

I want to first get the system installed cheaply on my Colt and see what happens. As soon as I get that system to work properly I want to start improving it as follows.

George Wiseman says that one of the challenges regarding HCS is to get enough heat to "crack the fuel. Initially the exhaust heat would be hot enough, but as your system becomes more efficient in other words you get a full burn of vapor in the chamber at the right time. (Combustion is the way it is supposed to be) Then the fun starts because then the exhaust gas cools down considerably. So there goes the heat source.

My plan is to use a high pressure vessel maybe start with a LP Gas container. I want to install a glow plug in it as well as a fuel injector and a pressure switch and of course some safety measure. I don't know yet if the glow plug or plugs can generate enough heat but if it can I want to spray fuel onto the glow plugs to crack the fuel. From there I want a thin copper pipe routed to the engine to supply the vapor to the intake manifold. I want to use a compressor's pressure switch in some way to switch on the injector as soon as the pressure drops to a certain point inside the container.

What is your take on this plan. I know my KISS Principle is down the drain with this one....HaHaHa

Karl.

I saw the video's and for sure that is part of my plan. First see what our fuel does as is on HCS and then go the distilled route if need be.

Martin, thanks for the vote of confidence!

Yes George Wiseman and Eagle research are a great source of info and devices, he's been at it over 30 years. I have a HYCO 2A kit, in the box, these are no longer available, though George did recently offer 2 of these he discovered in a shed of his. He did come up with the original EFIE for O2 sensors. His work with Brown's gas is foundational, IMHO. Great guy.

My intuition, on your Colt, and probably many other engines in SA is the ECU will be less likely to block gains, time will tell. Remember, Ron Hatton, and many Gadgetmen, have seen substantial gains here, even on many recent model year vehicles, that should be far more difficult far as the ECU goes. You may not need to worry 'bout it that much. But do as you wish.

The great thing about the Gadgetman Groove is- it's so simple, once it's understood. I have promoted the "other stuff", tire pressure, MPG Remedy (thanks, Dan!), ignition mods, etc. to boost gains esp. for when one is working on a stubborn vehicle. And, as different tricks to have in one's bag, that attack the efficiency issues from other directions, to the extent one chooses to. Greg, as you know, has gone into great detail painstakingly describing his use of these tricks, calling it Pre-Groove Prep (thanks Greg!)

Preachin' to the Choir, I know! I know that when you discover things, you will tell of them too.

Tracy G

Thank you Tracy.

It is still my goal to use the Groove as my no. 1 approach then add the other tricks as I go along.

The groove does conform to the KISS principle the best......

Martin

Martin,

I cant give you a proper assessment of your rig seeing I have not tried anything like it.
All I know is you need the proper heat and amount of vapors to have the proper formula for success.
Too little heat, too much or too little vapors will not give you the results others have.
I have had temporary success with this and the only explanation I can find is that the ECU kills the HCS. Why else would it work for only 10 second intervals when cruising at highway speed with no fluctuation in speed? My thoughts is that the ECU reads something wrong and shoots gas into the engine thus killing MPG results I have seen and felt with HCS.
As far as your rig, first try it the conventional way before going difficult.
You may also experiment with Denatured Alcohol or Ethanol since it has only 2 carbon molecules and supposedly is easier to crack instead of gasoline with additives.
If you decide to try gasoline, I would be extremely careful as to not let any liquid enter the cracking tube since this will coat the tube with deposits of carbon and the gum junk they put in the gas thus killing the effectiveness of the tube. You would have to then remove the tubing and replace since you will be scratching your melon wondering if you had results as to why those results ceased.

Thanks Karl for your input.

Sounds like I might go the distillation route from the start. To prevent unnecessary complications. Or go the alcohol/ethanol way first to see what works and what not. I mean if my rig cracks the alcohol/ethanol then I know it is not the rig.

Did you ever try the methanol or alcohol to see if that works for you? What vehicle do you have?

I have tried the denatured alcohol/ethanol just for a week and see no difference.
The reason I was trying ethanol was that I read methanol and ethanol have 2 carbon atoms which are easier to crack than the 6 for acetone and toluene and gasoline up to 12 atoms.
Cant remember where I read it but the premise was the less carbon atoms, the easier it is to crack.
Was going to try isopropanol but that had 3 carbons.
The reason for trying these were to see if it was a heat issue for no consistent cracking.
Plus I have had my tubing plugged up over 4 times now and had to remove and it was supposedly gas getting into the lines with the garbage the elites put into the gas. Wont try straight gas again if I can help it for the pain it causes. Then again, this is the reason this garbage was put into the gasoline in the first place. Too many people were vaporizing the gas and getting phenomenal mileage. Think Charles Pogue but with his carberator they added lead to the gas to destroy his efforts hence why we had leaded gasoline.
So that is why I was stressing distilled gas or ethanol.

Tracy,

I was interested in your Dodge Sport until I viewed the video you made of it.
After I saw your video and the abuse you put that car through, I decided I didnt want a car that was put through the ringer like that.
BTW...was that you driving that car or were you taking the video?